Diamondbacks Bullpen

[seanprh]

i originally posted this over on the dbacks message board but i feel there will be a better discussion about this here. please people give me your opinions! i want to know whether you agree or disagree

ok, now i know gonzo was a fan favorite and he really did do a lot for the team and community and i'm very very grateful for all that he has done for us. BUT, losing him(in my opinion) was not such a bad thing for this team and i will tell you why.

he wasn't a clubhouse leader. instead i think he was more a cancer in the clubhouse. do any of you remember how he went off about how "the writing is on the wall" and threw a temper tantrum because he got benched for ONE game? that happened right around the grimsley incident and quite frankly i think a combination of both is what made our season go south in a hurry. I know if i was a player and the "team leader" we are all supposed to look up to is acting like a pre-pubecent child that it wouldn't necessarily raise my or the teams moral. also, he was not what you look for in a veteran player. that being someone that knows their career is coming to an end and wants to pass their knowledge on to the next generation. he ABSOLUTELY refused to work with any of the kids in outfield for fear that one of them might be better than him and take his job. now i understand his way of thinking and i would be willing to accept it if there weren't players all around mlb that are/were in his exact same position that are WILLING and even go out of their way to help the young kids. even randy johnson who is as a sour puss and unfriendly helped out webby. gonzo couldn't help out one teammate(young kid) in his time here. now that all of that is out of the way.....his ability is slipping. he's a defensive liability and i would rather have manny ramirez playing left field defensively than gonzo. at least manny get the ball to the infield or even (gasp) home plate! plus when you look at his number they have been declining since after we won the world series.

don't mistake what i say though. i'm extremely sad to see him go. but, in the end i think it's best for the team production wise, defensive, and for team moral.

teams lose franchise players all the time. instead of complaining (which won't fix anything anyway) about it and viewing the situation with contempt, i think we should remember the good times we had with the player and be thankful that we got to cheer them on for however long they were here.

[Dangerfield]

Gonz is still a top notch obp guy, and pitcher frustrater. I could of made him the best two hole guy in the league, with CJ batting third and CQ 4th, last year. Until BoMel/managment start applying the things I preach here, the team will struggle. .230 from him and Trace with risp last year. Bat them in middle of the order. Plus they fielded their position like donkeys. Don't get me going.
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My wife is always trying to get rid of me. The other day she told me to put the garbage out. I said to her I already did. She told me to go and keep an eye on it

[TAP]

[Espo]

Seanprh Welcome. I completely agree with you on the subject. Getting rid of Gonzo was not a bad thing and will most likely help the growth of young guys likes Young, Quentin and Carlos Gonzalez in the future.
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http://azsportshub.com

[NJ-DBACKS-FAN]

geez

i hope gonzo got the number of that bus that he was just thrown under! you know for a fact that he did not want or refused to help the younger players, not saying you are full of it, but you said it like you knew with first hand knowledge (know it was in papers but they can blow out that issue to be bigger to sell papers)


i for one am glad to see him go, his production (lack of) was not worth all huss and fuss for the 2 baggers he was hitting instead of HR that should be hit for a corner outfielder...his D was...well we all know

as for manny over him...............ahhhhh..............i got a feeling you are not the only one that would feel that way...
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Not many D-Back fans in NJ.....


Like to think im a trend setter

[B. O. N. D.]

Ever since he went to the Dodgers, Gonzo is dead to me. He did not exit gracefully and both he and Estrada pissed me off with their incessant whining in the media. Good riddance. The only Gonzo I have is a beloved and cherished memory.

He's meat when he faces the Dbacks.
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Oops in the 2 hole!

[tmar]

We may end up with a few extra of Dangerfield's beloved SB's when Gonzo's in town.

[whatuwant]

He is probably the last dodger hitter to be worried about. Did anybody else notice the lack of runners on base when he hit all his doubles? When there were runners on base he was the first to pop up to third or ground out to second. (a sign that he tries to pull EVERYTHING but can't anymore) Apparently he still thinks its 2001 by the way he acted in the middle of the season. "bench me????"

Give the donkeys some credit, I think a donkey would have done much better in left field than Gonzo

Estrada and Gonzo both were cry babies and i'm glad they are gone
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"He that speaks much, is much mistaken. " BF

[stu]

2007 ZiPS Projection - Luis Gonzalez
----------------------------------------------------------------------
AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB BA OBP SLG
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Projection 517 70 128 41 1 14 67 69 74 1 .248 .342 .412
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Opt. (15%) 597 104 166 46 2 22 89 83 69 2 .277 .373 .472
Pes. (15%) 291 36 63 17 0 7 26 32 51 0 .216 .303 .347

[moviegeekjn]

[Dangerfield]

Its too bad Gonz didn't want to mentor, because, in my opinion the guy who I would never of imagined, would of done what he did from mid May on last year was Hudson. Hudson started taking a more gonz like approach at the plate with two strikes, which is what leads me to believe, if Hudson stays with it, and with his Boggsian ability to put a nice short swing on low strikes, he maybe in for an elite 4 or 5 years.

therefore, gonz did have a little impact imho, last year. Now, I blame BoMel for putting him in the 3/4 hole, especially the 4 hole, and not splitting the lefties, and then sitting back and watching loogy after loogy start against us.

byrnes thanks bomel, for that, of course, but then curses him when he puts him in the 4 hole.

With all that said, my pick for the 3 hole this year, contingent on him following through with the same approach he had last year. O'Dog.
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My wife is always trying to get rid of me. The other day she told me to put the garbage out. I said to her I already did. She told me to go and keep an eye on it

[Dangerfield]

You know Gonz was so bad in Aug, my belief is he cost us the season single handily. my belief also is, he got in the way of Chad T with risp. And whoever set those line-ups up shouldn't of been allowed too in Sept. You Gonz lovers, go root for the Doggers.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/ARI/2006_bo.shtml

Look at Trace in the 4 hole and risp...not great, but not Gonz terrible

Actually it 36/120=.300 F-ing crap....

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/playerSplits?categoryId=139889


Look at Gonz's August and scoring position and slg in aug/sep

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/playerSplits?categoryId=85964



What masochist, couldn't figure out what the problem was?


What kind of synergy and scoring might of gone on last year Aug if
Byrnes led off
Gonz -
CoJack
Chad T.
CQ
Estrada
O'dog
Drew
_________________
My wife is always trying to get rid of me. The other day she told me to put the garbage out. I said to her I already did. She told me to go and keep an eye on it

[whatuwant]

32/52 doubles with nobody on, only 10 doubles with RISP...0/7 with bases loaded...9/15 hrs with nobody on...knew my observations weren't bs
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"He that speaks much, is much mistaken. " BF

[TSWINDERS]

[Catharsis]

That Gonzo is such a waste of space. I mean, he's all friendly with the fans and stabbing his teammates in the back. AZ is only better off when he actually moves his family completely out of the state.

What a loser.

[seanprh]

first off, thank you for being so kind and welcoming you onto your board! i think i will fit in nicely here. everyone had great things to say. i really appreciate all of the feedback on my post. also, thanks for the links TAP. have a good one everyone!

[NJ-DBACKS-FAN]

[levski]

[shoewizard]

Yeah, Mike was being sarcastic. He was the "conscious" of the board back during the summer and fall when the Gonzo drama was playing out, trying to get everyone remember all the good things Gonzo did, and presenting the possibility that he was not actually the devil. Of course at times Mike overplayed his hand

Becuase Sean is a new member to the board, he did not know that we had already hashed over the Gonzo situation to death in previous threads.

[AZ SnakePit]

The Gonzo thing is like when you break up with a long-time girlfriend. You bitch about how awful she was at the end, and conveniently forget all the good times. In Gonzo's case, that's a .298 hitter, 130 OPS+, with 28 homers and 97 RBIs per year, over his eight seasons. He's the only 100-RBI guy we've had since 1999...
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Jim McLennan
AZ SnakePit

[whatuwant]

[Espo]

[shoewizard]

Thats why he has his own blog.....he can...you know.....WRITE

(I agree, Jim summed it up perfectly)

[Espo]

[shoewizard]

Oops.....sorry, forgot about that...lol