Diamondbacks Bullpen

kris · September Call-Up Joined: 25 Oct 2006 Posts: 75

According to Az Republic,

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/diamondbacks/articles/1127dbnotes1127.html

levski · Veteran Presence Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 1725

tmar · Veteran Presence Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 1161

I believe this was addressed on a different thread and the 80% rule only applies to arbitration elligible players that aren't FA's.

casey1992 · Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:52 am Post subject:

farmfan · Draft Pick Joined: 30 Sep 2006 Posts: 7

I'm not sure if Gonzo's case is the exact same at JD Drew's, but this is what Ken Gumick of MLB.com said on the Dodgers mailbag.

Do the Dodgers get draft-choice compensation for J.D. Drew if he signs with another team?
-- Bruce, L., Vancouver, Wash.

That depends on several factors. If he signs with another club by Dec. 1, the Dodgers would receive that club's first-round pick and a sandwich pick. If he is still unsigned by Dec. 1, the Dodgers must offer him salary arbitration to be eligible to receive compensation.

baldmaga · Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:22 am Post subject:

Well, Gonzo was let go by the club, whereas Drew opt'ed out of his contract. So I'd imagine there are some differences.

As much as I'd like to see some compensation from Gonzo, I don't think Arizona would risk offering arb to him, that is unless they could offer the league minimum.

casey1992 · Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:27 am Post subject:

farmfan's Ken Gumick quote is exactly how I'd interpret the rule. The Dodgers certainly have the option of offering arby to Drew. The same thing would apply to players whose options have been declined.

With Gonzo, even without the 80% rule, offering arby would mean he gets much more than the league minimum. Luis, by default, is worth much more than $380,000.

stu · Everyday Player Joined: 12 Aug 2006 Posts: 554

The 80% is a source of confusion even among knowledgable fans. There is a 80% rule, but, unless the new CBA changes this (and I haven't seen anything that says it does), it only applies to arbitration for super 2-6 year players. It does not apply to FA arbitrations.

Here is a link with the a link and cite to the last CBA.

http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/008103.php

I think we would have offer arbitration to Gonzo to get a pick. If Gonzo accepts (which I suppose is possible), then the arbitrator must award either what Gonzo submits or what the club submits. This type of arbitration has now become known as "baseball arbitration". It makes for an interesting game, supposedly getting each side to their best offer.

So if the Dbacks make a low offer, it is likely that Gonzo's offer gets accepted by the arbitrator. Shoe mentioned in the old thread that Greg Maddux unexpectedly accepted arbitration a few years ago, hurting the Braves budget planning so it is possible that Gonzo would roll the dice for a higher one year deal than look for a longer term deal.

I think this is a risk the Dbacks can't take. They have said their good byes to Gonzo. Offering him arbitration will only pick at the wound. If they were going to do this, they would have been better off (other than the extra 20,000 fans for Gonzo's farewell) just saying they would wait until the end of the season and then make a low one year offer and offer him arb.

baldmaga · Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:50 am Post subject:

Well, I'm not sure if anything has changed in the new CBA, but according to the old version, every club is subject to Maximum Salary Reduction. Every player is entitled to 80% of salary and performance bonuses from the previous season. And no less than 70% of salary and performance bonuses from the previous two seasons.

Aaron · Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:12 am Post subject:

I looked into this in this thread. Read the portion of the Baseball Prospectus article I posted. I believe, assuming no change to the new CBA, that we're correct to assume there is no 80% (or 70%) rule in play.

In that thread I noted some comparables to Luis as Juan Encarnacion, Reggie Sanders, Rondell White, etc. (mid-tier OFs that signed FA contracts last offseason). They all signed for around $5MM per year, which I beleive would be the base for a Luis offer. Again, for reasons already posted (and not wanting to recreate everything I wrote over there), I think offering Luis arbitration is a good idea. At worst we're stuck with a one-year deal and a real need to deal Eric Byrnes away. Worst-case scenario seems highly unlikely though with the bad blood between the two and the likelihood Luis will garner at least a 2-year deal this offseason (assuming the draft pick doesn't scare potential suitors off).[/url]

qudjy1 · Veteran Presence Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 1101

I might be totally off base here, but This is probably a situation where offering gonzo arb - when you just told him you dont want him back - is not the "right" thing for a GM to do - just from the player /FO personal relations side.

People in real life (Josh Byrnes),in a person to person meeting, had to sit in front of Gonzo, and tell him they didnt want him back - and now they are going to offer him arbitration? In other words saying, we do want you back, just cheaper. Even though its a business - i think these guys TRY to treat each other like people.

Offering other FAs like zito, schmidt, etc arby is a totally different situation where the FO would be happy to have the player back at a non market salary...

shoewizard · Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:25 am Post subject:

Stu nails this....especially the emotional component.

It's just not worth offering him arbitration. The next news in Arizona's papers about Gonzo should be he has signed a contract with another team.

Period.

Aaron · Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:45 am Post subject:

qudjy1 · Veteran Presence Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 1101

Aaron · Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:08 pm Post subject:

baldmaga · Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:19 pm Post subject:

Didn't we get both Conor Jackson and Carlos Quentin by means of Draft pick compensation?

Aaron · Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:29 pm Post subject:

qudjy1 · Veteran Presence Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 1101

baldmaga · Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:22 pm Post subject:

qudjy1 · Veteran Presence Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 1101

McCray · Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:08 pm Post subject:

qudjy, i can't remember the last time i found myself disagreeing with anything you posted, and this is no exception. yes, as a business decision, it makes sense to offer him arb. in fact, i was posting in favor of it recently. but at the heart of the decision is the emotional impact: the bad PR between the FO and gonzo, and the bad PR between the FO and the rest of baseball.

we should give josh byrnes a lot of credit -- by saying goodbye to gonzo, they really took it on the chin this season. but they did it trying to be standup guys, trying to let him have a goodbye. i don't see them offering arb now, not after they already suffered so to do the right thing. the draft pick just isn't worth the bad PR.
_________________
Hank, you're dead to me.

levski · Veteran Presence Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 1725

The extra draft picks would've been nice. From a purely business point of view, I don't see Gonzo coming back as some team out there will give him a two or three year deal. I can see the emotional component, however.

Either way, the Dbacks should get two supplemental picks which will be nice.

qudjy1 · Veteran Presence Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 1101

McCray · Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:30 pm Post subject:

levski · Veteran Presence Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 1725