Diamondbacks Bullpen

[Gorfo57]

I'll be the first to admit that I've been the biggest possible critic of Boob Melvin over the past few seasons, BUT, the son of a bitch appears to be coming of age this season.

Tonight he called a near flawless game from the dugout with his choice of using Hudson as a pinch hitter. The result? 3 run go ahead homer. The post game cited Hudson as being Melvin's best possible match-up. Granted Hudson was the only player on the bench hitting above .200 for the month of June, and with his .300+ avg for the month it may have seemed like a no brainer, but I have to give Bob credit for his no panic approach to managing these kids this season.

He's remained calm throughout all the ups and downs and has continued to play the percentages. He's stuck with his BP guys through good and bad, a BP that stunk up the ballpark for the past several seasons. And with all the low offensive numbers for the month of June he set a line-up for tonight's game to take advantage of an opportunity to win with pitching and defense against a team whose offense was nearly as bad for the month as his own. Theslumping offense did break out against what has been a suspect BP, but you have to admit that the defense did keep them in the game long enough for the bats to score some runs tonight.

Maybe Melvin missed a move of getting Owings out sooner during the O's 3 run 6th, but letting the kid finish the inning may have kept the kid's confidence up, which could pay benefits later in the year and during Micah Owings future here.

We've all seen the Boob Melvin blunders over the past few seasons, but the guy has done a real turnaround this season. He seems, so far, much better as a manager with his day to day and in game decisions than he has in seasons past.

Could it even be possible that Bob Melvin is in the midst of turning in a Manager of the Year season here with the young D-backs?
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Gorfo57

Upton everyday.
Go D-Backs!

[Ryan]

I didn't see the whole game tonight, but for sake of argument I'll go ahead and agree with you that he managed a good game. Still, it was one good game. It seems like my wife and I are screaming at the TV on a near-nightly basis calling out Biff on some obviously dumb move.

Would I love to see more well-managed games? Of course. But as of today I still think he's not a very good manager. As I've said before, this team is, more often than not, winning in spite of Melvin.
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Die-hard D-Backs fan in enemy territory

[jimbo4net]

Are you kidding me?!

[shoewizard]

One thing I was thinking about today with regards to Melvin.

He has to make A LOT of decisions every day. Decisions that we all second guess. Some of his decisions are wrong, and obviously so. But just as many if not more are right.

One thing we have to acknowledge. A Bob Melvin managed team beat their Pythag by 11 games in 2005, and are beating their Pythag by 4 games right now. (Last year they were under Pythag by 4 games)

It may all just be random fluctuation. After all, his teams win totals were under pythag both years in Seattle.

I think it would be interesting to see a stat for managers such as + or - pythag per 162 games managed, or something like that.

[baldmaga]

[Robert S.]

Does this thread get posted if Hudson strikes out? If not . . .

[EvilJuan]

[wedge]

I wonder how much of this is being mandated by Byrnes, though, a la Billy Beane and his managers. I think I've noticed some subtle changes that Melvin has gone through since Byrnes has began to get more involved. like the amount of patience he's given the kids. A year ago, it was unthinkable to let someone go as long as they have in a slump, but he's been running them out there to let them figure it out on their own, which I think is very un-Melvin-esque in his way. I don't recall him playing the matchups quite as heavily in the past as he is now. In my mind, I've gotta think that maybe Byrnes really is influencing his decisions, to an extent.

Granted, I still think his pitcher usage is pretty sketchy sometimes, but it seems he's getting better at that.

[wedge]

[Gorfo57]

You know, Bob Melvin probably won't ever be considered one of the great managers in baseball like a John McGraw, a Connie Mack, on up through a Billy Martin or Sparky Anderson, or with today's best like a Bobby Cox or Tony LaRussa, but he certainly appears to be improving as a manager this year. He's just not blowing games making a bunch of bad decisions handling his pitchers this season.

Granted, having a rotation which has performed like ours has to this point certainly makes a manager's job that much easier. But, if you look at the bull pen he was given going into this season, one which was stripped of arms (Luis Vizcaino) during the offseason, and not all quality relievers lost (Jorge Julio), you have to be amazed or impressed with what he's done with his bullpen so far this year. Looking at the avg years of ML experience in the bullpen, the change in Valverde( pick 2 pitches and that's all you throw this year), and the way he's been shuffling guys in and out of the pen to keep fresh arms available, this is something Bob Melvin has never been successful with in his time here.

And sure, most of the credit should go to the relievers for stepping up and getting it done as often as they have this year, but some also has to go to Melvin and his staff. He seems to be squeezing as much out of what he has to work with in regards to his bullpen.

I think he's definately starting to improve as a manager this year.
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Gorfo57

Upton everyday.
Go D-Backs!

[AZ SnakePit]

[shoewizard]

[AZ SnakePit]

[stu]

I voted for it could be possible. Don't the wtirers vote for the award? If so, anything is possible.

IMO, Melvin has improved greatly this year. It may be that JB is giving him more input. It could be he is listening to Price more. It is also that JB has stripped him of his PV's so he has to play the kids.

[moviegeekjn]

I think Stu's on to the key for any perceived improvement... The one strength that BoMel has always had going for him was in his low key manner and ability to create calm and harmony in the dugout. Of course, given the wrong team... that could also be proclaimed a weakness.
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Old School Reviews: Life is too short for bad movies.

[Prosopis]

It could happen

[Gorfo57]

AZ SnakePit wrote:

[shoewizard]

Stu talking about Earl Weaver in the game thread got me thinking about my comment above about using Pythag vs. actual wins to evaluate a manager.

Here is Earl's track record

Here is Weaver's record

69.) -1)
70.) +4
71.) -2
72.) -10
73.) -5
74.) +5
75.) -5

During his first 7 years as manager in Baltimore, Earls' teams actually underperformed their Pythag in 5 of those seasons, and the net total is -14


76.) +4
77.) +9
78.) +7
79.) +4
80.) +2
81.) +7
82.) +4

Then in his next 7 seasons, the Orioles outperformed their Pythag EVERY YEAR for + 37

85.) -3
86.) -3

Earl came back 1/3 into the season in 85, and was around for 86...and then he was done.

Over a 16 year managerial career, one of the best managers ever had a net + of 17 wins over pythag, or about one win a year. Whether or not this actually reflects Earl's abilities as a manager I have no clue. But I still find it interesting.

[David B]

The Weaver post was one of the more interesting ones I've read, shoewizard. I would be curious to see how the Pythag shakes out for other perceived great managers. Maybe someone with more free time than I have will do some research. I'd particularly be interested in seeing a Pythag breakdown for LaRussa. One for Torre would be fun to see as well.

And I think shoe's comment of "Vanilla Bob" was spot on too. I think Melvin's personality leads to a lot of the criticism against him. You don't/didn't see Piniella or Martin or Weaver second guessed nearly as much on their in game decision making. It's kind of the George Bush model (which is actually the George Patton model). If you do something wrong, but do it with conviction, people are more affraid to challenge you on it...unless you do so many things wrong (like Bush) that people just can't stay quiet any longer
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Football is a mistake. It combines the two worst elements of American life. Violence and committee meetings.
--George F. Will

[stu]

Some one at Primer posted pyth records for managers about 3 yeasr ago. Too bad they don't have a better search engine, but maybe some there has it.

I was suprised that the great managers all had good pyth resords.

The problem with pyth and managers is that a realy good manager will get his teams more runs (and allow the other team fewer). For example, no way Earl has Tracy playing today. Maybe Young hits a home run there and Dbacks win by 7 with Burres getting knocked out early. That hurts the manager's pyth, but the manager has played a big role in that win.

[shoewizard]

Yeah, I agree with that, in fact I was just going to say I wish I could get historical EQR team records from BP.

How many runs a team scores or allows vs. what they would be expected to score or allow would probably tell us more than looking at straight Pythag.

I'll get around to looking up Larussa, Torre, and Bobby Cox while I'm at it. Stengal too...at least the Yankee years.

[shoewizard]

Here is the study link

Part 1

Part 2

I'll have to print these up and bind them into a book and stick it in the bathroom to find the time to read it all.

[moviegeekjn]

[matt]

If the DBacks make the postseason, Melvin has a pretty good shot at MOY.

[TAP]