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Coors Field and Humidors

 
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Catharsis
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:56 pm    Post subject: Coors Field and Humidors Reply with quote

Can't figure out what header to put this in. So oh well...

After this series with the Rockies and the low scoring affairs capped with an 18 inning game so far, what do people think about the humidors impact on the bats at Coors? I think it sucks. Rockies fans have had to suffer through mediocre teams, but the one cool thing about that stadium was that you got to see runs (which we often don't see as much of in the NL. The HR avg this year is down a full HR compared to its career average (3.0 to 1.9). Check out these home and away ERAs among their pitchers:

Byung-Hyun Kim: Home 3.05, Away 6.85
Aaron Cook: Home 3.67, Away 4.11
Jason Jennings: Home 2.83, Away 3.84
Jeff Francis: Home 2.96, Away 3.75
Jose Mesa: Home 1.20, Away 6.95
Ray King: Home 3.75, Away 4.58

Josh Fogg: Home 5.37, Away 3.88
Tom Martin: Home 6.14, Away 3.00
Brian Fuentes: Home 4.44, Away 2.25

For their top pitchers, that's incredible home numbers. Only three of their core pitching staff members (Affeldt hasn't pitched in very many games at Coors yet), there are all pretty much significantly better at home. When is doctoring the ball too much?
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Robert S.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Home: 31-28
Away: 27-33
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McCray
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think an important point, though, that was mentioned somewhere else about the humidor issue is this:

the humidor does NOT change the balls. it prevents coor's field from changing the balls.

i don't understand the gripe some people have with it.
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XB3
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_4193598

Humidor critics feast on marathon

By Patrick Saunders
Denver Post Staff Writer
DenverPost.com
08/17/2006

The Arizona Diamondbacks' 18-inning, 2-1 victory over the Rockies, a game that began Tuesday night and bled into Wednesday morning, once again put Coors Field's humidor under scrutiny.

Critics contend that something is out of kilter when a ballpark once known for double-figure scores produces three runs in 18 innings. There were nine hits the last nine innings.

But Rockies general manager Dan O'Dowd vigorously defended the humidor Wednesday and said Rockies starting pitchers - who entered Wednesday night's game with a 4.06 ERA, lowest in the National League - are not getting their due.

The latest humidor basher is Buck Martinez, Team USA's manager during the World Baseball Classic. After hearing about the latest low-scoring game at Coors, Martinez said it's time for a closer look at how baseballs are stored in Denver's mile-high altitude.

"A 2-1 game, in 18 innings? That's dramatic proof that something's going on," Martinez said. "I don't understand why nobody is looking into this. To me, it's changing the fundamentals of the game. It's like going to a pitcher's park and letting hitters use aluminum bats."

Martinez did concede that the Rockies' pitchers are better than in the past, but the use of the humidor disturbs him.

What disturbs O'Dowd is the idea that the Rockies are somehow altering baseballs to meet the team's needs.

"I think there is some national perception that we are doing something different with the baseballs," O'Dowd said. "That's just not true. We are storing them to the (baseball) manufacturer's specifications like we have always stored them before."

The humidor, technically an environmental chamber that was first used in 2002, is set at 40 percent humidity so that baseballs don't dry out in Denver's arid, high-altitude climate. Dry baseballs are harder, fly farther and are difficult for pitchers to grip.

O'Dowd pointed out that Rockies starters had logged nearly 750 innings, more than any other team in the NL. He also said the Rockies' strikeouts (358) to walks (190) ratio at Coors Field displays how well the staff is pitching.

"I would hope people are giving our pitchers credit for their performance," he said. "I think that's where there's been dramatic improvement."

As for the 18-inning, 2-1 game, O'Dowd viewed it more as a prime example of the Rockies' offensive ineptitude. The Rockies were 0-for-13 with runners in scoring position.

"That was kind of an 18-inning microcosm of the season," he said. "We have so much quality pitching, but we've struggled to score runs."
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EvilJuan
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not saying that there is (or isn't) anything going on regarding the humidor (I suspect not). However, the remarks of Rockies GM Dan O'Dowd clarify exactly nothing:
Quote:
O'Dowd pointed out that Rockies starters had logged nearly 750 innings, more than any other team in the NL. He also said the Rockies' strikeouts (358) to walks (190) ratio at Coors Field displays how well the staff is pitching.

"I would hope people are giving our pitchers credit for their performance," he said. "I think that's where there's been dramatic improvement."


If the pitcher gets a better grip on the ball, doesn't that mean he's more likely to throw a strike, rather than not?

If a ball from the humidor is heavier than one that has dried out (which, of course, it will be), doesn't that mean that the movement of the pitched ball is likely to be more pronounced, favoring the pitcher over the batter?

An improvement of performance of the Rockie's pitching staff may very well derive from the humidor - and cannot, imo, be offered as an alternative explanation. When you look at the statistics posted earlier in this thread by Catharsis (ERA home and away) and Robert S. (W-L record home and away), it adds to the argument that the Rockies are gaining a benefit from the humidor, and not from their pitching staff alone.

In light of the concerns, shouldn't MLB at least look into the situation?

Inquiring minds want to know...
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XB3
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the manufacturer recommends storage at a certain temperature and humidity level, then why not have a humidor in every park? What about the teams like the Devil Rays who play in a part of the country with naturally high humidity. Then of course the question of altitude and the density of the air comes into question. I think the humidor unnaturally changes the conditions of the game.
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EvilJuan
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

XB3 wrote:
If the manufacturer recommends storage at a certain temperature and humidity level, then why not have a humidor in every park? What about the teams like the Devil Rays who play in a part of the country with naturally high humidity. Then of course the question of altitude and the density of the air comes into question. I think the humidor unnaturally changes the conditions of the game.


Good point, Don: Every ballpark should have a humidor - or no one should have a humidor.

And I agree that the humidor changes to conditions of the game.
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Oden
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure the balls aren't sitting outside in Tampa, though. They play indoors with the AC.
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matt
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Using humidors in all parks with the exact same specifications would be nice but can MLB afford to end up like soccer?

The thing that is funny here is that they have used it for years and it hasn't had this effect. Either they are doing something beyond the specifications for the humidor or the pitchers are just better.
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Oden
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or this year is just an aberration.
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matt
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oden wrote:
Or this year is just an aberration.


It can't be that. How does that make the press any money off of that?
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TAP
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lee Jenkins of The New York Times displays his sense of humidor HERE.
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McCray
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW, i think the humidor is great. all it does is keep a ball in coor's in line with a ball from detroit, la, kansas, new york, etc. sure, there are other outliers, like florida's humidity, or our little launching pad, but these weren't as signficant as coor's.

look at the situation of the rockies if they don't have the humidor. they cannot get good FA pitching, they can't really develop pitching because it fucks with the kids too much to come up and have to pitch in coors, and they can't have a consistent offense because coors changes how you approach your swing.

i like the new chance for the rockies. i mean, it was that or have a franchise with no real chance for anything ... aside from contraction.

the first day you can grip a ball better in coors than in LA, that's when it went too far and it's cheating. right now, it's just levelling the playing field.
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