Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 134
Location: Diamondbacks Nation
Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:57 am Post subject:
yeah, i think signing after 07 would be better:
1. Livan and possibly Davis may leave for insane offers
2. RJ can be serviceable and he will come back for the closest thing you can get to a bargain in this market
3. We can fill in not one, but two spots in the rotation this year with EnGon, EdGon, Nippert, Owings, Eveland, etc. and see how they fare, rather than just one if RJ comes back now. This helps us gauge our pitching strength for '08-'10
I'd love to see RJ back, but its better if the reunion is for 2008
{In the past week the Arizona Diamondbacks have offered a package of players to the New York Yankees in exchange for Randy Johnson, a baseball official said.
In need of starting pitching -- and a marquee name that will draw more fans -- the Diamondbacks have offered a package of at least three players, including a major-leaguer. They would also want a 72-hour window to negotiate an extension with Johnson, who is owed $16 million in the final year of his contract. The Yankees, according to the official, don't want to pick up any of Johnson's salary.}
déjà vu?
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tmar Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 2:32 pm Well it's made ESPN. Supposedly they're discussing 3 players, one a major leaguer. There's mention of a 72hr window to discuss an extension.
...and NJ-DBACKS-FAN, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at what Randy can still accomplish here in the dry desert heat. I think he still has at least 2 more very serviceable years left.
i only hope he has 2 years left if he is in the dry air.....if not, see ya
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Not many D-Back fans in NJ.....
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 660
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:42 am Post subject:
"josh has not shown a soft side for players that the community would like back..."
Recall that when Byrnes was hired, it was said that he'd be running the show, but it would be a team effort on the bigger deals. I.e., deals that require big $$ will have ownership input. Byrnes may not even want to sign Johnson. It could be that KenCo. wants to bring Johnson back for the PR and they're willing to spend prospects and money to do it. We don't know yet.
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Anal Mod Squad
"josh has not shown a soft side for players that the community would like back..."
Recall that when Byrnes was hired, it was said that he'd be running the show, but it would be a team effort on the bigger deals. I.e., deals that require big $$ will have ownership input. Byrnes may not even want to sign Johnson. It could be that KenCo. wants to bring Johnson back for the PR and they're willing to spend prospects and money to do it. We don't know yet.
So getting this into perspective, if RJ extends he'll likely want 10MM for that 2nd year <if he has money loving bone left in his body>. He's already guaranteed the 16MM for next year so for a 2 year deal he's likely going to want about 26MM.
The way the deal is sounding now, we'd be offering 2/26 + 3 prospects <one possibly being Chad Tracy>.
Unless the media has this really backwards, I'd have to pass. However, my guess is the media has this wrong.
Let's get Randy back to Arizona!! If we don't, he'll end up with one of the other NL West teams. I think we can afford to part with some of the young pitchers in our camp. As hard as it is to give them up, let's remember that not all of them are going to pan out and definitely not all at the same time. We need a veteran in our starting lineup and who's more ideal than a future hall of famer?
Also, a few years ago, I remember reading an article in which Randy mentioned his wish to become a minor league pitching coach. How ideal it is for him to start that dream while pitching for us this coming year! Also, now that Gonzo is gone, this team really needs a veteran's presence. It's a win-win situation!
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In JB we trust and in RJ we believe.
Let's get Randy back to Arizona!! If we don't, he'll end up with one of the other NL West teams. I think we can afford to part with some of the young pitchers in our camp. As hard as it is to give them up, let's remember that not all of them are going to pan out and definitely not all at the same time. We need a veteran in our starting lineup and who's more ideal than a future hall of famer?
Also, a few years ago, I remember reading an article in which Randy mentioned his wish to become a minor league pitching coach. How ideal it is for him to start that dream while pitching for us this coming year! Also, now that Gonzo is gone, this team really needs a veteran's presence. It's a win-win situation!
this is exactly what i hope is not getting thrown around in the office of JB and crew.....
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Not many D-Back fans in NJ.....
Let's get Randy back to Arizona!! If we don't, he'll end up with one of the other NL West teams. I think we can afford to part with some of the young pitchers in our camp. As hard as it is to give them up, let's remember that not all of them are going to pan out and definitely not all at the same time. We need a veteran in our starting lineup and who's more ideal than a future hall of famer?
Also, a few years ago, I remember reading an article in which Randy mentioned his wish to become a minor league pitching coach. How ideal it is for him to start that dream while pitching for us this coming year! Also, now that Gonzo is gone, this team really needs a veteran's presence. It's a win-win situation!
I think you are confusing the RJ of 2001, with the RJ of 2007-2008. He was a less than dominant pitcher last year (ERA of 5), is coming off surgery, is 43 (will be 44 in sept of next year) and makes 16M a year... let him go to SD and crap out there... if we can give up Byrnes for RJ and 10M a year, fine, but after that - i say let the other teams trade for him...
I don't have anything against getting RJ back but saying 'we need a veteran in the rotation' is a load of crap. We have 2 veterans (Livan, Davis) and the frackin 2006 Cy Young Award winner.
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 2548
Location: Gold Canyon
Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:59 am Post subject:
matt wrote:
I don't have anything against getting RJ back but saying 'we need a veteran in the rotation' is a load of crap. We have 2 veterans (Livan, Davis) and the frackin 2006 Cy Young Award winner.
Agreed. I'd want him for his ability to get batters out, not for a "veteran presence."
I don't have anything against getting RJ back but saying 'we need a veteran in the rotation' is a load of crap. We have 2 veterans (Livan, Davis) and the frackin 2006 Cy Young Award winner.
Agreed. I'd want him for his ability to get batters out, not for a "veteran presence."
BoMel loves him some PV or VP what ever you wanna call it.......I will call it old and not worth the 40 man roster spot.....(unless it is under our terms)
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Not many D-Back fans in NJ.....
I don't have anything against getting RJ back but saying 'we need a veteran in the rotation' is a load of crap. We have 2 veterans (Livan, Davis) and the frackin 2006 Cy Young Award winner.
Agreed. I'd want him for his ability to get batters out, not for a "veteran presence."
Does he have an ability to get batters out now, and 2 years from now?
He had an ERA of 5 in Yankee Stadium, a pitcher's paradise for lefties. He also had an excellent defense behind him. But he would now be pitching in a hitter's paradise. And he's a year older - when he could totally lose it at almost any moment - either his "stuff" and/or physically.
I suppose you can argue that if he's viewed as a #3 or #4 that it makes sense if the price is right. But because he's 43 that premise only makes sense if the D-Backs are contenders. Are the D-Backs widely viewed as contenders next year? As we know, most don't think so.
The only other argument for obtaining him is drawing more fans, but as Shoe has pointed out MANY times, there's no evidence that supports the proposition that he drew more fans here.
I can see considering trading for him if it's Eric Byrnes and a couple of 3rd tier prospects - AND if it doesn't jeopardize their ability to sign a needed free agent in 2008. So I guess I wouldn't - and couldn't - do it.
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 8
Location: San Diego, CA
Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 12:54 pm Post subject:
The only way I'm for this is as long as we don't lose good, young talent to the damn Yanks.
I love RJ and it would great to see him finish his career in the right uniform (although, that's changed since he was here...hehehe), but not at some crazy price.
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 2548
Location: Gold Canyon
Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 12:58 pm Post subject:
From a San Diego perspective:
Bill Center / San Diego Union-Tribune today wrote:
Randy Johnson wants to be closer to home.
And the Yankees apparently wouldn't mind ridding themselves of his $16 million salary for 2007 in an effort to sign Barry Zito or Roger Clemens, both free-agent pitchers.
Does that mean that Johnson, 43, a five-time Cy Young Award winner, could be headed to the Padres? That was one of the rumors circulating out of New York yesterday.
Although Padres officials were unavailable for comment, the name of reliever Scott Linebrink was mentioned in several stories about a possible swap for Johnson.
However, the Diamondbacks, Dodgers, Giants and Angels were also mentioned as potential destinations for the 6-foot-10 left-hander.
Arizona seems to be the front-runner in the trade talks for a variety of reasons.
Johnson's home is in the Phoenix suburb of Paradise Valley. Also, Johnson is still owed approximately $40 million in deferred salary from his six seasons with the Diamondbacks. Reacquiring Johnson might allow the Diamondbacks to reschedule some of those payments.
Trade rumors involving Johnson apparently grew out of a discussion the pitcher had last week with Yankees General Manager Brian Cashman.
Johnson, who is grieving the death of his brother, told Cashman he'd like to play closer to his Arizona home.
Johnson has one year to go on the three-year, $48 million contract he signed with the Yankees in 2005 after they acquired him from Arizona for Javier Vasquez, Dioner Navarro and Brad Halsey.
Johnson is apparently owed $16.5 million, including $1.5 million in a deferred guarantee from the Yankees. The Yankees apparently don't want to carry any of the remaining $14.5 million.
That could be a major drawback for the Padres, who just paid $10 million to sign free-agent right-hander Greg Maddux.
The Padres do have an opening in their rotation. And General Manager Kevin Towers has been trying to meet with another 43-year-old left-hander – David Wells – to fill it.
But Wells, who was pondering retirement at the end of last season, canceled a meeting with Towers last week because of illness.
Johnson is 34-19 with a 4.37 ERA over the past two seasons with the Yankees. He was 17-11 in 2006, with a career-worst 5.00 ERA.
After the season ended with a losing effort in the first round of the playoffs, Johnson had surgery for a herniated disk in his back. He had similar surgery in 1996 while pitching for the Mariners.
Johnson does have a no-trade provision as part of the three-year contract he signed with the Yankees.
Linebrink had been mentioned in trade talks with Atlanta twice in the past year, most recently for second baseman Marcus Giles. The Padres instead acquired Giles as a free agent after the Braves declined to offer him a contract.
Linebrink was 7-4 with a 3.57 ERA and two saves in 73 relief appearances for the Padres last season.
The 30-year-old right-hander has appeared in 73 games each of the past two seasons. In 3½ seasons with the Padres, Linebrink has a 24-9 record and a 2.57 ERA in 262 relief appearances.
I don't have anything against getting RJ back but saying 'we need a veteran in the rotation' is a load of crap. We have 2 veterans (Livan, Davis) and the frackin 2006 Cy Young Award winner.
technically, we need a pitcher who's better than livan and davis. if that pitcher happened to be a veteran, so be it...
He had an ERA of 5 in Yankee Stadium, a pitcher's paradise for lefties. He also had an excellent defense behind him. But he would now be pitching in a hitter's paradise. And he's a year older - when he could totally lose it at almost any moment - either his "stuff" and/or physically.
I suppose you can argue that if he's viewed as a #3 or #4 that it makes sense if the price is right. But because he's 43 that premise only makes sense if the D-Backs are contenders. Are the D-Backs widely viewed as contenders next year? As we know, most don't think so.
The only other argument for obtaining him is drawing more fans, but as Shoe has pointed out MANY times, there's no evidence that supports the proposition that he drew more fans here.
I can see considering trading for him if it's Eric Byrnes and a couple of 3rd tier prospects - AND if it doesn't jeopardize their ability to sign a needed free agent in 2008. So I guess I wouldn't - and couldn't - do it.
First, he didn't have excellent defense behind him. Second," Yankee stadium = heaven for lefties" is overrated. Third, re-read the Nate Silver piece on BTF to understand why his ERA of 5 is deceiving. And why he's not a #4 or #5...
With RJ, the Dbacks are contenders. And they might be the favorites to win the NL west if he gives them 25+ quality starts next year. And they get enough offense from 3B and LF (I think they'll get plenty of offense from the other spots in the lineup)...
As to whether you or anyone else WOULDN'T do it... well, some really smart people who know baseball a lot better than you do seem keen on doing it. That's good enough for me
Yankees.... It could turn out to be good for both teams, but it is definitely a good move for the Yankees, especially if they sign Clemens or Zito to fill out their rotation.
RJ's periphs last year should've given ERA around 4, not 5. His component ERA was even lower, around 3.75. As shoewiz pointed out, and as Silver mentions, RJ was still death on hitters with no one on base; in fact, he led ALL AL starters in OPS against with no one on base.
He just didn't pitch so well with runners on, despite striking out about as many and walking about as many. His main downfall was the extra homers he gave up with runners on. Was it his knee? His back? Bad luck? A combination of all three? I'd take E, all of the above.
If it's indeed true that RJ's back feels good (I read somewhere it felt better than it did after his first surgery, in 1998), and his knee is holding up (a pretty good IF, you know), then you can count on luck averaging out. He'd be AZ's second best starter behind Webb, if with the DBacks next year.
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