Diamondbacks Bullpen

levski · Veteran Presence Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 1725

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6165654

Hank · Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:16 pm Post subject:

Damn, you beat me to it. I just copied the same blurb to post over here. I wonder if there is anything to the speculation, or if Rosenthal is just pulling it out of his ass.

qudjy1 · Veteran Presence Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 1101

Kris beat you to it

B. O. N. D. · Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:21 pm Post subject:

We've actually been discussing this in the "Unofficial Trade" thread, or whatever it's called.
_________________
Oops in the 2 hole!

matt · Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:31 pm Post subject:

Yes, we've gotten started on it but if anything gets going on it then we might want to continue it here. For a second I thought about splitting the topic but that sounds like a pain in the ass.

shoewizard · Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:35 pm Post subject:

Lev, who do you like better, Duke or Gorzelanny?
What the heck happened to Duke's k rate?
Is this a trend with Pittsburgh lefty's, to see a large than expected drop in their K rate after reaching the majors?

I think you might be dismissing Maholm too quickly.

Duke 7.25 Minors, 5.25 Majors
Gorzelanny 8.98 Minors, 5.75 Majors
Maholm 7.92 Minors 5.92 Majors

Interesting that among these three, Maholm actually has the highest K/9 rate.

GB/FB Ratio

Gorzelanny 1.31
Duke 1.79
Maholm 1.95

Again, Maholm induces more groundballs.

I wouldn't completely dismiss him. In fact, at this point, I don't think anyone can say for sure he will be worse than the other two, and I'm sure his price tag is ALOT lower.

McCray · Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:42 pm Post subject:

the k numbers look okay. so do the control numbers. any idea what these guys project to be?
_________________
Hank, you're dead to me.

levski · Veteran Presence Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 1725

link

Duke and Gorz have much better "stuff"... it's just not showing in the stats.

check out "GB%" as well as HR/G and HR/F

shoewizard · Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:52 pm Post subject:

yeah....I was looking at those numbers all throughout.

Gorzelanny's HR/F % is TOO LOW.....Flukey low...if you know what I mean.

I accept what you are saying about Duke and Gorzelanny having better stuff.....Stu posted in the other thread he did not like Maholms stuff too.

If you asked me right now who I'd want for Tracy, I would take either Gorzelanny or Duke.....not Maholm.

But if they could make a trade by giving up something less than Tracy for Maholm, it is possible it could work out just as well.

As of right now.....Duke and Gorzelanny's superior stuff has yet to manifest itself into superior production.

I think I need to add....I see Duke's 2006 K rate as a major red flag.

Projekt · AAA Stud Joined: 11 Aug 2006 Posts: 72

I would see if we can get one of their starters and a middle reliever for Tracy. Start there, and see what happens. (probably have to throw in someone else for bullpen help) I would prefer Gorz over the other 2.

If we free up 3rd base, we could use Callaspo or Barden there, or we could try to find a power bat to put in the 4 hole. I like Tracy, but his #s last year (the K rate, specifically) worry me. Callaspo would represent a defensive upgrade over Tracy, and he would give us a "Leadoff hitter" for what its worth. Barden has looked pretty good in the minors, so who knows.

A young lefty with good stuff would be great to have in our rotation, and we probably could still afford to look for more pitching (probably Bullpen)

levski · Veteran Presence Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 1725

Barden ain't it. He's trade fodder at best. Callaspo can't match Tracy's production at 3B. Our offense will take a fairly big hit with Tracy gone.

The other thing I like about Duke and Gorz over Maholm: ceiling. Maholm's is much much lower, ie, #4 guy tops. Duke and Gorz are potential #2s.

Projekt · AAA Stud Joined: 11 Aug 2006 Posts: 72

^ Yeah, Callaspo wouldn't be the same offensive force as Tracy, but his defensive upgrade might be enough to make it bearable. Couple better starting pitching with a defensive upgrade at 3rd, and the offense might not be such a problem...

kris · September Call-Up Joined: 25 Oct 2006 Posts: 75

misterx · Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:21 pm Post subject:

i wouldnt mind the trade for Duke or Gorzelanny

McCray · Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:42 pm Post subject:

i like the idea of a trade for gorzelanny (i'm less sold on duke, i guess), but lev is right: losing tracy is going to really hurt this offense. barden sure isn't the answer, and i'm not too sold that callaspo is either -- he's an incredible superutility, but i don't know if i see him as an everyday corner player, more of a middle IFer. that's going to be a huge hole at 3b to fill... FA market, maybe? or a trade? whatever they do, i'm just saying that the 3b hole after tracy left cannot be filled by the prospects right now.

and my gf loves him, and won't put out if he's traded. josh byrnes, if you're reading this, please don't trade him unless we get back a great SP. i like having sex. i mean, if we get a great pitcher back, i'll take that hit for the team, but i'll be pissed if you guys trade tracy for someone like maholm.
_________________
Hank, you're dead to me.

TAP · Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:57 pm Post subject:

B. O. N. D. · Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:59 am Post subject:

McCray: don't worry.

Callaspo will make your girlfriend forget about Tracy.

Are you guys SERIOUS?!
_________________
Oops in the 2 hole!

NJ-DBACKS-FAN · Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:16 am Post subject:

im amazed how fast a player can fall..........he was real good in 05 playing positions he never played or like....moving back to his "natural" position he would explode in 06, as well all know he was a disappointment last year and now we are talking about trading him for pitching......funny how things work......

I think Snell would be a someone to get......i know he gives up a ton of HR and his WHIP is high, but i think he has some upside, he reminds me of pedro martinez..(relax im not comparing but his body type, skinny right hander and his number 45) plus he is comapred to halladay and schmidt at his age...

just think he has some nice upside........

but insure it would cost more than TC18..........Im just trowing it out there
_________________
Not many D-Back fans in NJ.....

Like to think im a trend setter

shoewizard · Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:17 am Post subject:

I've been too hard on Tracy. I think his bat will probably come around, or improve some from last year. I am less confident his defense will improve. He is a grinder, and in fact worked REALLY hard on his defense during last years offseason and during the season. He is at an age where defense starts to slip, not get better, generally. (The "Peak" age on defense is suspected to be a couple years earlier than on offense, according to MGL and others)

But, since he is such a hard worker, there is always hope. At the plate, if he can get away from trying to pull everything, and go with the pitch more more, he can get back to being what he should be, which is a .300/.360/480 guy.

He's not really a .900 OPS guy, and we should not be expecting that. But .840 is a reasonable expectation. Thats pretty good for 3rd base, IF he can improve at that positon, but longterm, thats not the kind of production we are looking for from a first baseman.

Jackson is a better hitter than Tracy, and will ultimately be posting higher OPS than Tracy. But Jackson needs to also be posting OPS higher than .850 over the next couple of years, in order to warrant the kind of deal that Tracy got. If he doesn't, he is trade bait.

McCray · Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:20 pm Post subject:

mods, can someone fix the long link? scrolling right and left is driving me mad.

i think shoewiz is right about tracy. i don't think tracy05 was for real, but he's got some real power. he smacks the shit out of a lot of balls. his power is for real. probably not the HR rate, but doubles are probable if he can go back to spraying line drives all over the field.
_________________
Hank, you're dead to me.

Dangerfield · Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:52 pm Post subject:

Gorz is a number 1, Duke's a number 2. Malholm's a good 3, possible number 2. Tracy's a 850-900 ops guy, last year's k rate was an aberration, and a terribly managed situation. Tough to trade a guy who's all heart like Tracy, I couldn't bring myself to do it.
_________________
My wife is always trying to get rid of me. The other day she told me to put the garbage out. I said to her I already did. She told me to go and keep an eye on it

dbacks watcher · AAA Stud Joined: 11 Aug 2006 Posts: 51

Much easier to find a good position player than a good pitcher.

Trade Tracey for pitching and have someone hold the spot while you determine if Mark Reynolds can be an everyday 3rd baseman at the major league level.

I think he has both enough glove and enough power to do well there.

qudjy1 · Veteran Presence Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 1101

You could always sign a huff or the guy from SF (name escaping me)...

Dangerfield · Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:10 pm Post subject:

my heart of hearts tells me, Tracy's a first baseman, but the guy's such a hardworker, and team guy, hard to give that up, and it wouldn't shock if he turned himself into an above average defender at third. He's a legitimate 290+ 25+ homer guy, from the left side, we'll need another left handed bat if we trade him. Resign Gonz? Laughing

_________________
My wife is always trying to get rid of me. The other day she told me to put the garbage out. I said to her I already did. She told me to go and keep an eye on it

matt · Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:39 pm Post subject: