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shoewizard
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 Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:50 am Post subject: The Oakland A's |
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Although they were uncerimoniously swept by the Tigers, I thought I should post this anyway....something I wrote for a friend researching the A'S
The story of the Oakland A’s is best summed in the following phrase
“ Consistently doing more with less”
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Year Won Loss Finish Payroll Rank
2000 91 70 DIV 32 Mil 25th
2001 102 60 WC 34 Mil 29th
2002 103 59 DIV 40 Mil 28th
2003 96 66 DIV 50 Mil 23rd
2004 91 71 2nd 59 Mil 16th
2005 88 74 2nd 55 Mil 22nd
2006 93 69 DIV 62 Mil 21st
664 469
Avg 95 67 0.586 23rd |
• Over the past 7 seasons the A’s have won 4 division titles, a Wild Card, and came in 2nd twice despite consistently ranking in the lower 3rd of team payroll in the majors.
• The only teams to have made more playoff appearances than the A’s since 2000 are the Yankees(7), Cardinals(6), and Braves(6)
• Only the Yankees have a higher regular season win percentage during that span, (.601-.586)
• The average payroll ranking over the last 7 years for these comparison teams:
Yankees #1
Braves #7
Cardinals #9
A’s #23
• The A’s chief division rival, the Angels, have ranked 11th in total payroll over the last 7 years, but the last 3 yrs they have ranked 3rd,4th, 3rd.
• Over the last 7 season the A’s have never won less than 88 games in a season and not finished lower than 2nd. In other words, they have never had a “rebuild” or down season.
• Contrast that with the Angels who have made the playoffs 3 times in the last 7 seasons and had two seasons with sub .500 records.
Other points of interest
• The two first round picks from the much talked about 2002 draft, Nick Swisher, (#16) and Joe Blanton (#24) are major contributors to the the current ballclub
• The A’s have achieved this with almost complete roster turnover. Only Barry Zito and Eric Chavez remain from the 2000 team.
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EvilJuan
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:20 am Post subject: |
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Kinda hard to argue with success...
It would be interesting to see included (in some way, at some point) with the numbers you've cited the attendance figures for A's home games in the same period. In part, has there been any fluctuation; or any trends (esp. if upward)? Is there any downside to the "always a bridesmaid, never a bride" pattern of making the playoffs with regularity, but not winning it all?
At this point of the Diamondbacks' existence, I'd be happy to have a team that was always in contention -- not the BoMel claim of being in contention as in '06, but consistently being 15+ games over .500. However, I suspect that, after a few years of almost making it all the way, I'd be at risk of being jaded, and want the team to do that little bit more to get over the top -- and so to cease being the consistent team that was always contending.
Clearly, we will not see, anytime soon, a repeat of the Colangelo '01 strategy of getting to the World Series. The Diamondbacks appear to be pursuing instead the Moneyball approach that has contributed to the successes in Oakland. Will we stay the course? And will that be enough?
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TAP
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| EJ, when considering game attendance, keep in mind that the A's are in a 2-team market in which the Giants have always been the team with the dominant press exposure (KNBR, SF Chronicle, etc.). |
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David B
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:28 am Post subject: |
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At the end of the A's series with the Tigers, the tv announcers took yet another backhanded jab at the Moneyball philosophy. I think shoe's post is a good reality check about just how much Oakland has accomplished with limited resources.
Looking at the A's playoff record though, "small sample size" is beginning to sound more like a cop out than an explanation. One of the things I thought of was that, as you get into the playoffs, you start facing better pitching. You can't count on receiving the same number of walks as you did during the regular season (when you face a lot of watered down staffs), so a team like Oakland that has a low batting average loses an aspect of what their offense is built around.
I looked at the four game series with the Tigers, and the A's walked 5,2,2,and 5 (three by Grilli in one inning). I'm not sure what that all means in the scheme of trying make a case, but I'm just throwing some ideas out there. During the regular season, the A's averaged a shade over 4 walks a game, so the 3.5 they averaged vs. Detroit isn't a big difference, but it is indeed less.
This year, the A's probably accomplished about what they should have. They lost to a team in Detroit with superior pitching. Beyond that, it sounds like there were some tensions between players and manager. There are probably a lot of reasons why the A's have not matched their regular season results in the playoffs. I think it's probably time for both sides of the Moneyball argument to maybe try and figure out what those might be.
Last edited by David B on Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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moviegeekjn
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| EvilJuan wrote: |
| Clearly, we will not see, anytime soon, a repeat of the Colangelo '01 strategy of getting to the World Series. The Diamondbacks appear to be pursuing instead the Moneyball approach that has contributed to the successes in Oakland. Will we stay the course? And will that be enough? |
Signs from current ownership indicate more fiscal responsibility, so would seem that they will stay the course. Phoenix market "should" be a bit better than the Oakland market, so salary base for the Dbacks likely to be a bit higher than for the A's in time... but no wild spending sprees ever going to happen again.
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shoewizard
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| It would be interesting to see included (in some way, at some point) with the numbers you've cited the attendance figures for A's home games in the same period. |
You can see those on the A's page from yer to year baseball-reference.com
Basically they were at or near the bottom of American League attendance throughout the 90's, climbed to middle of the pack from 2001-2005, but slipped back to 12th out of 14 in 2006
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DesertKnight
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| shoewizard wrote: |
| Basically they were at or near the bottom of American League attendance throughout the 90's, climbed to middle of the pack from 2001-2005, but slipped back to 12th out of 14 in 2006 |
But that 2006 number can't fairly be compared to previous years, since in 2006, the upper deck was covered and those seats weren't sold.
Edit: I understand that the numbers given above are AL numbers, not just Oakland numbers. My point is that if you allow those seats to be sold, Oakland's attendance in 2006 would undoubtedly be considerably higher, and Oakland might have ranked in the middle of the pack again.
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shoewizard
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:04 am Post subject: |
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Yeah....I think their concept was to get more people in the lower levels, and make the park more "intimate"...but I am sure they did not reduce all those lower levels seating prices....so it was a way to try to increase average ticket prices.
I don't know if the attendance drop was a result of the seating change, or two second place finishes with no playoffs.
It will be interesting to see if they get a bump next year for making the playoffs again. |
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EvilJuan
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| Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| TAP wrote: |
| EJ, when considering game attendance, keep in mind that the A's are in a 2-team market in which the Giants have always been the team with the dominant press exposure (KNBR, SF Chronicle, etc.). |
Acknowledged. Even so, I'd be willing to wager that the A's have outdrawn the Diamondbacks over the period in question -- or, at worst, done roughly the same in attendance.
According to the 2000 Census, Oakland has a population of 399.484. San Francisco has a population of 776,733 (and at least that many automobiles, based on three years of parking on the street there!). Overall, the SF Bay area has a population of 7.1 million people. By comparison, the Phoenix Metropolitan Statistical Area has a population of 3,851,876.
In part, my initial question was less about raw attendance figures -- although these are not without significance - but rather about the trending that might, or might not, have been taking place, given the record of regular-season success achieved by the A's.
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David B
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:23 am Post subject: |
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Just as impressive as the A's (and with less hype), the Minnesota Twins have also managed to build a tradition of success within the constraints of player turnover and limited resources.
2002 94-67, 1st, 26th in payroll
2003 90-72, 1st, 18th in payroll
2004 92-70, 1st, 21st in payroll
2005 83-79, 3rd, 20th in payroll
2006 96-66, 1st, 19th in payroll |
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shoewizard
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:28 am Post subject: |
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Thats a great point David.
Somebody should write a book about them.  |
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David B
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| shoewizard wrote: |
Thats a great point David.
Somebody should write a book about them. |
Terryball?
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matt
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| Contractionball? |
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shoewizard
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:56 am Post subject: |
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I still can't get over their new stadium is going to be OUTDOOR
I just can't wait to see a World Series game outdoor in Minnesota in Late October
The First couple weeks of April are no walk in the park that time of year.
If they had to play a night playoff or World series game TONIGHT outdoors in Minnesota, the Temp would drop below 40 degrees before the game was over. |
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TAP
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| 32° on Halloween night. You see a lot of fat ghosts trick or treating in Minneapolis as kids stuff parkas beneath their ghost sheets. |
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moviegeekjn
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:02 am Post subject: |
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They had outdoor WS games in Minnesota in '65, but that was early October and during the daytime.
It would be brutal now  |
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shoewizard
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| he...I was just looking up those games on retrosheet.org to see if they showed gametime temps, but they don't. |
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matt
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| TAP wrote: |
| 32° on Halloween night. You see a lot of fat ghosts trick or treating in Minneapolis as kids stuff parkas beneath their ghost sheets. |
By parkas you mean body armor, right?
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Hank
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| shoewizard wrote: |
I still can't get over their new stadium is going to be OUTDOOR
I just can't wait to see a World Series game outdoor in Minnesota in Late October
The First couple weeks of April are no walk in the park that time of year.
If they had to play a night playoff or World series game TONIGHT outdoors in Minnesota, the Temp would drop below 40 degrees before the game was over. |
It can't be any worse than Denver, where the forecast high on Saturday is 43 degrees with snow showers... (not that there appears to be any danger that Denver will ever host a World Series game, mind you).
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TAP
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| Hank wrote: |
| It can't be any worse than Denver, where the forecast high on Saturday is 43 degrees with snow showers... (not that there appears to be any danger that Denver will ever host a World Series game, mind you). |
I'm always amazed that so many beginning of the season games are scheduled in Denver.
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NJ-DBACKS-FAN
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| Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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twins and a's had the most important thing is young pitching
PITCHING PITCHING PITCHING...............
just ask torre about that!
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