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Need more reasons to not play the kids?

 
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TAP
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:08 am    Post subject: Need more reasons to not play the kids? Reply with quote

In August it was because AZ was "still in a pennant race" and we needed to play the Proven Veterans™ because of course only they truly "knew how to win." Now, we must continue to play the Proven Veterans™ because it wouldn't be right to let next year's players get much needed major league experience while other teams are still in a pennant race.

Some highlights from an East Valley Tribune interview today...

Jack Magruder / East Valley Tribune wrote:
While manager Bob Melvin said he will be sensitive to other teams who are in better shape in the playoff race, he will continue to manage his team the way he sees fit down the stretch, regardless of what the outside perception might be.

"Other managers are watching your lineup," Melvin said. "If you run all your kids out there against a team that they are two games above or something like that, I’ve heard some comments in the past like these guys should be running their best lineup out there."

"You always want to beat the teams that are ahead of you in the division. You always want to finish up strong," Melvin said. "In your division, you play these guys 18 or 19 times and by the end of the year you don’t particularly care for anyone of them. You just want to beat them."


Why not let the rookies see what they've got at the major league level these last two weeks, with the lone exception being Gonzo starts every home game?
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levski
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob Melvin is officially in my doghouse. His feeble reasoning and pussyass arguments make Gambo sound like the kind of logic and reason. Fn A.

So the Padres would be pissed off if they saw Drew at SS instead of Counsell, for example, but for the opposite reasons that Melvin is thinking.

Anyhow, will Melvin EVER get get a clue? The only way to deal with his dumb ass lineups next year is to completely rid them of veterans.
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NJ-DBACKS-FAN
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

is he serious??????????

does not want to make other teams mad??????????

who pays him????? AZ not any other team!!! DO WHAT IS BEST FOR THIS TEAM!!!!

PLAY THE KIDS.............

162 games, if SD needs us to win a game for them and they get mad that SD6, CQ7, CY24 are in the line up........im sure that they can look back on a game or two (sarcastic look) Rolling Eyes that they can see that THEY LOST that cost them a playoff spot.........not this team playing the kids...

and the fact melvin is thinking about this is.......he needs to think about his team, fans, and FO!

ASSHOLE!
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Oden
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Bob Melvin is officially in my doghouse."

It's about time! Melvin has single-handedly turned 2007 into a rebuilding year.
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shoewizard
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

levski wrote:
Bob Melvin is officially in my doghouse. His feeble reasoning and pussyass arguments make Gambo sound like the kind of logic and reason. Fn A.

So the Padres would be pissed off if they saw Drew at SS instead of Counsell, for example, but for the opposite reasons that Melvin is thinking.

Anyhow, will Melvin EVER get get a clue? The only way to deal with his dumb ass lineups next year is to completely rid them of veterans.


I told ya so. Wink
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moviegeekjn
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

levski wrote:

Anyhow, will Melvin EVER get get a clue? The only way to deal with his dumb ass lineups next year is to completely rid them of veterans.


THAT is the ONLY solution. Get rid of all his PV toys, and he can't play with them! Rolling Eyes
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charlie
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

moviegeekjn wrote:
levski wrote:

Anyhow, will Melvin EVER get get a clue? The only way to deal with his dumb ass lineups next year is to completely rid them of veterans.


THAT is the ONLY solution. Get rid of all his PV toys, and he can't play with them! Rolling Eyes


A better way to deal with this is to get rid of Melvin.
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EvilJuan
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

moviegeekjn wrote:
levski wrote:

Anyhow, will Melvin EVER get get a clue? The only way to deal with his dumb ass lineups next year is to completely rid them of veterans.


THAT is the ONLY solution. Get rid of all his PV toys, and he can't play with them! Rolling Eyes



"No - there is another..."

Get rid of Melvin.

===================================
But this begs the question: Who is running this team?

Melvin?
Then don't expect to see any changes... Mad

Josh Byrnes?

Jeff Moorad?

Whoever the somebody is, they need to decide the course of action that is going to be followed with regard to who plays (rookies or pv's), make it clear, and make sure it is followed.

On the other hand, maybe that has already happened... Shocked
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EvilJuan
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, and Bob -- with regard to what the other managers in the NL West think? Take a page from the wisdom of Col. Nathan Jessup:


"I don't give a damn what you think my lineup should be!"
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moviegeekjn
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"Other managers are watching your lineup," Melvin said. "If you run all your kids out there against a team that they are two games above or something like that, I’ve heard some comments in the past like these guys should be running their best lineup out there."


That just sounds like a wimpy assed insecure manager! Rolling Eyes Get a clue, Bob. Your BEST lineup is NOT composed of your beloved PVs!!!
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EvilJuan
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. Melvin and Mr. Hyde?

The following is from today's azcentral.com, under Nick Piecoro's byline:

Quote:
"I've heard some comments in the past about, 'These guys should be running their best lineup out there,' " Melvin said, speaking generally. "We'll run the best lineup out there on a particular day. Our youngsters . . . they deserve to play."


Will the real Bob Melvin please stand up?
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matt
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn, he's acting like he's making a pitching change. I should pull him, wait no, I should let him face one more batter. Ok, he walked him and now the tying run is in scoring position. Ok, one more. Damn HR, well, I might as well pull him now.
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matt
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jack Magruder / East Valley Tribune wrote:
"Other managers are watching your lineup," Melvin said. "If you run all your kids out there against a team that they are two games above or something like that, I’ve heard some comments in the past like these guys should be running their best lineup out there."

"You always want to beat the teams that are ahead of you in the division. You always want to finish up strong," Melvin said. "In your division, you play these guys 18 or 19 times and by the end of the year you don’t particularly care for anyone of them. You just want to beat them."


Pierco wrote:
"I've heard some comments in the past about, 'These guys should be running their best lineup out there,' " Melvin said, speaking generally. "We'll run the best lineup out there on a particular day. Our youngsters . . . they deserve to play."


I don't think he's being inconsistant in the quotes. In the first one, he never explicitly stated that he's going mostly PVs. TAP did leave this quote out:

Jack Magruder / East Valley Tribune wrote:
“They don’t sit here every day and see what we’re dealing with. Our younger players have shown they can be productive and they can help win games. “But you are going to continue to see ‘Gonzo’ (Luis Gonzalez) and (Craig) Counsell and ‘Trace’ (Chad Tracy) and some of these other guys. It’s a balance that we’ve been working at for the better part of two months.”


I think we expected to see Counsell in there a bit either way, so really nothing has really changed. We all knew Gonzo would play every day. To accomodate this, Young and CQ will pretty much alternate starts. Drew will get most of the time (when he can) and Callaspo will be a bench guy.
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EvilJuan
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

matt wrote:
I think we expected to see Counsell in there a bit either way, so really nothing has really changed.


Yes, but why should we expect to see Counsell in the lineup every day? To help showcase him, so he can sign with another team next season? To me, the only reason that rationally explains Counsell's persistence in the lineup is that Drew is injured. (No, I mean really injured...) And even then, if Callaspo isn't going to be playing at 2B, let him sub for Drew at SS...

matt wrote:
We all knew Gonzo would play every day. To accomodate this, Young and CQ will pretty much alternate starts. Drew will get most of the time (when he can) and Callaspo will be a bench guy.


Again: why? Why should Luis Gonzalez not be part of an alternation in the OF? I said, when it became official that he would not be returning, that he should play in every home game -- but on the road, well, nuts to that! He already knows he's gone. Why deprive Young and CQ of playing time on his behalf now?

Of course, I doubt that our manager has the stones to make such a move...
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EvilJuan wrote:
Yes, but why should we expect to see Counsell in the lineup every day? To help showcase him, so he can sign with another team next season? To me, the only reason that rationally explains Counsell's persistence in the lineup is that Drew is injured. (No, I mean really injured...) And even then, if Callaspo isn't going to be playing at 2B, let him sub for Drew at SS...


We won't see Counsell in there every day but he will get a couple starts. I doubt he will play in the finale but he will get at least one of the last four starts. Think of it as throwing a bone to the fans that like him. He won't be back and after Gonzo, he's one of the most popular guys the team has had (for some odd reason, it sure isn't because of stellar performance!)

Quote:
Again: why? Why should Luis Gonzalez not be part of an alternation in the OF? I said, when it became official that he would not be returning, that he should play in every home game -- but on the road, well, nuts to that! He already knows he's gone. Why deprive Young and CQ of playing time on his behalf now?


I see what you are saying but it's just a couple games and Gonzo has meant a lot to this team. It won't make any significant change in their development.
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DesertKnight
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

matt wrote:
I see what you are saying but it's just a couple games and Gonzo has meant a lot to this team. It won't make any significant change in their development.


I have to agree with Matt on this one. We're talking about a handful of meaningless games at the end of the season. Gonzo and Counsell won't be back, but they have a lot of fans who want to see them play one more time. Jackson and Tracy are playing every day, and Byrnes, Young and Quentin are playing nearly every day. Drew's hurt. No offense, guys, but I don't see that this is an issue. Let's let Gonzo and Counse have their farewell tour, tip our caps for all they've done for the team, and relax, knowing that next year, Young, Quentin, Drew, and Jackson will all be starters and Callaspo will get a lot of playing time as well.
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EvilJuan
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DesertKnight wrote:
matt wrote:
I see what you are saying but it's just a couple games and Gonzo has meant a lot to this team. It won't make any significant change in their development.


I have to agree with Matt on this one. We're talking about a handful of meaningless games at the end of the season. Gonzo and Counsell won't be back, but they have a lot of fans who want to see them play one more time. Jackson and Tracy are playing every day, and Byrnes, Young and Quentin are playing nearly every day. Drew's hurt. No offense, guys, but I don't see that this is an issue. Let's let Gonzo and Counse have their farewell tour, tip our caps for all they've done for the team, and relax, knowing that next year, Young, Quentin, Drew, and Jackson will all be starters and Callaspo will get a lot of playing time as well.


Whatever.

Yes, it's only a handful of games -- essentially meaningless games, to boot, apart from the opportunity to be spoilers (if that floats yer boat).

How many Gonzo/Counsell fans are going to be in SD, LA, and SF to see them play? (In other words, I'd already conceded the home games to the "good-bye tour" aspect.)

It's not the medium - it's the message. Ya know, "It's the little things that mean a lot?" But, no big deal. Or, as I already said...

Whatever...
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, maybe I'm just being paranoid but...

Quote:
But you are going to continue to see ‘Gonzo’ (Luis Gonzalez) and (Craig) Counsell and ‘Trace’ (Chad Tracy) and some of these other guys.


Why is Tracy lumped-in with those on their way out? Confused

Coupled with Gambo's "Chad Trady" (and Tracy's season) one has got to wonder...

Also, is it me or does BoMel talk like a teenager?
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DesertKnight
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EvilJuan wrote:
How many Gonzo/Counsell fans are going to be in SD, LA, and SF to see them play? (In other words, I'd already conceded the home games to the "good-bye tour" aspect.)


I don't think it matters whether we're talking about home games or road games. For many people who watch on TV, these last few games will be their chance to see Gonzo and Counsell in Dbacks unis, and unless they end up with a team that gets regular appearances on ESPN, FOX, or with the Braves or Cubs, seeing them play at all will become a rare event.
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TAP
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@*&#%!
Jack Magruder / East Valley Tribune wrote:
The D-Backs, out of playoff contention, could have used the final eight games as a way to gain experience for younger players such as little-used outfielder Chris Young and catcher Miguel Montero, but Melvin said playing time will be balanced between young and old, especially if the NL West is in the balance when San Diego ends the season with four games at Chase Field next weekend.

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levski
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TAP wrote:
@*&#%!
Jack Magruder / East Valley Tribune wrote:
The D-Backs, out of playoff contention, could have used the final eight games as a way to gain experience for younger players such as little-used outfielder Chris Young and catcher Miguel Montero, but Melvin said playing time will be balanced between young and old, especially if the NL West is in the balance when San Diego ends the season with four games at Chase Field next weekend.


Well, TAP, it's a given that Gonzo will play every day, and that Quentin and Young will split days. That's not that big of a deal, actually. Certainly nothing to get upset about...
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tmar
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It just shows that Melvin and his FO supporters are committed to things other than smart baseball.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tmar wrote:
It just shows that Melvin and his FO supporters are committed to things other than smart baseball.


BoMel's gotta consider the Dbacks "spoiler" role. Dodgers would scream bloody murder if he left Gonzo's bat outta today's lineup. Just like the Padres would scream "unfair" if Gonzo didn't start all three games next weekend.
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tmar
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know you're kidding right?

A- Who cares what they scream. We don't owe them a lineup and shouldn't expect it from them if/when the shoes on the other foot.

B- Sitting a Gonzo or Byrnes so that a Young or Hairston gets to play has about an equal probability on the outcome of these games.

Bottom line is when your choice is to either play the players the other teams want you to play or play those that will improve your quality next year, there's only one clear choice.
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patlawman
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob Melvin feels most comfortable with those who are his contemporaries. He relates to them, respects them and in my opinion feels that he doesn't have to manage them. They will always play as much as he can get away with and the FO allows. Also, let's not forget that Clark just went through surgery so he would be ready for spring training. Where is he going to Play?
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