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foulpole
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Joined: 10 Aug 2006
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 Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| foulpole wrote: |
| stu wrote: |
| And under the Overbay Rule, i.e. just a tick above average is above average... |
I find it strange that "league average" is someone that ranked 20 out of 24 ( based on OPS ) "qualified" players as well.
How does that happen???
BTW, in '06, Overdue was 12 out of 24 ( but I know that you were refering to '05 ).
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shoewizard
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Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 3145
Location: In front of my computer
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| stu wrote: |
shoe, I was responding more to this comment:
but man after watching suck crappy left field the past couple of years,
Hence the "you guys".
Also if Gonzo is 13 on the Dewan scale for 2004, 2005 and 2006 (I explained this because you said good outfielder, definitely above average, except for his arm, during his prime years, and Luis' prime stretched all the way to 2003. ) and he was just average (zero) last year, he would have been at 19+ the other two years. This would have lead the league for 2006. I did not see a drop from among the best in the league to average this year, but I think the 3 years stats are more reliable. Again, we can agree to disagree.
And under the Overbay Rule, i.e. just a tick above average is above average, so the fielding metrics that I have seen do all have Gonzo above average even for.  I was really thinking about the Dewan numbers and prior years as I had not seen many numbers for this year. Dial has him at +2 for 2006 and the poor man's linear weights at 1. |
Hey, I'm just glad to see you quoting fielding metrics. It feels liberating to know that now I can do it too without being castigated for presenting useless information. 
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Espo
MLB Rookie
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 173
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| shoewizard wrote: |
| stu wrote: |
shoe, I was responding more to this comment:
but man after watching suck crappy left field the past couple of years,
Hence the "you guys".
Also if Gonzo is 13 on the Dewan scale for 2004, 2005 and 2006 (I explained this because you said good outfielder, definitely above average, except for his arm, during his prime years, and Luis' prime stretched all the way to 2003. ) and he was just average (zero) last year, he would have been at 19+ the other two years. This would have lead the league for 2006. I did not see a drop from among the best in the league to average this year, but I think the 3 years stats are more reliable. Again, we can agree to disagree.
And under the Overbay Rule, i.e. just a tick above average is above average, so the fielding metrics that I have seen do all have Gonzo above average even for. I was really thinking about the Dewan numbers and prior years as I had not seen many numbers for this year. Dial has him at +2 for 2006 and the poor man's linear weights at 1. |
Hey, I'm just glad to see you quoting fielding metrics. It feels liberating to know that now I can do it too without being castigated for presenting useless information.
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Where would i find out more these stats? I'm new to the SABRmetrics and stats.
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shoewizard
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Joined: 10 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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This article will give you a good overview, with links to various metrics.
Use it as a starting point, and follow the links and read up as you have time.
http://ussmariner.com/?p=3283 |
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shoewizard
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Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 3145
Location: In front of my computer
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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This is also a good place to read up and study
http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/dialed_in/ |
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Espo
MLB Rookie
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 173
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks I will have to read up. |
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shoewizard
Hall of Famer
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 3145
Location: In front of my computer
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| Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:46 am Post subject: |
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Cubs to sign Floyd to play LF, and Soriano to move to CF, until Felix Pie is ready
Linky
The significance of this development should be obvious. |
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qudjy1
Veteran Presence
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 1101
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| Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| shoewizard wrote: |
Cubs to sign Floyd to play LF, and Soriano to move to CF, until Felix Pie is ready
Linky
The significance of this development should be obvious. |
Theriot is the other option at CF i was reading... I think Jones is the other option - moving him from right, but they might trade him now that floyd is there...
It really doesnt matter - right or wrong - EB will be on AZs roster opening day, and AZs standings in mid year, and injuries to players on other teams will dictate if he gets traded...
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tmar
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| Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:32 am Post subject: |
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I don't think any of us had any dillusions that we would be able to rid ourselves of EByrnes. This does signal probably the last ray of hope.
I guess the next step is what do we do with Hairston? Hopefully he stays with the team and rakes in ST. |
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TAP
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Location: Gold Canyon
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| tmar wrote: |
I don't think any of us had any dillusions that we would be able to rid ourselves of EByrnes. This does signal probably the last ray of hope.
I guess the next step is what do we do with Hairston? Hopefully he stays with the team and rakes in ST. |
Misha from Tucson wonders the same thing...
| Steve Gilbert today wrote: |
Is there a chance that Scott Hairston will get the starting job in left?
-- Misha V., Tucson, Ariz.
It certainly doesn't seem likely at this point. The D-backs seem to be committed to Byrnes as the starter in left with Young in center. Scott is going to have to battle to make the club as a fifth outfielder with the presence of Jeff DaVanon on the roster. With the numbers Hairston put up in Tucson, it's clear that he has little, if anything, to prove down there, and it's just a numbers game at this point for him. He needs an opportunity to get some playing time, and I still think he'd be better off getting a fresh start with another organization as I do really like him as a hitter. |
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qudjy1
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| TAP wrote: |
| tmar wrote: |
I don't think any of us had any dillusions that we would be able to rid ourselves of EByrnes. This does signal probably the last ray of hope.
I guess the next step is what do we do with Hairston? Hopefully he stays with the team and rakes in ST. |
Misha from Tucson wonders the same thing...
| Steve Gilbert today wrote: |
Is there a chance that Scott Hairston will get the starting job in left?
-- Misha V., Tucson, Ariz.
It certainly doesn't seem likely at this point. The D-backs seem to be committed to Byrnes as the starter in left with Young in center. Scott is going to have to battle to make the club as a fifth outfielder with the presence of Jeff DaVanon on the roster. With the numbers Hairston put up in Tucson, it's clear that he has little, if anything, to prove down there, and it's just a numbers game at this point for him. He needs an opportunity to get some playing time, and I still think he'd be better off getting a fresh start with another organization as I do really like him as a hitter. |
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nice misha v... nice...
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ibcrackin2
A-Ball Kid
Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 17
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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EB is definantly a better fourth outfielder then Hairston.
People though Gonzo should be kept as a reserve outfielder the problem with that was he is limited to one position which is not good.
Krynz as a back up I don't like. I am from Milwaukee orioginally and talk to a lot of people there about the Brewers regularly and the consensus on Krynz is he is a below average player that will amount to little and likely spend most of his career in AAA.
I am OK with trying Hairston in left and letting EB come off the bench, and when Davonon is healthy look at the trade market....Keeping EB now might be good in case Davanon doesn't come back or hurts himself again, shich is entirely possible if he try's to get back on the field to quick especially since he is on his feet so much and that was the area of the injury.
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moviegeekjn
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| ibcrackin2 wrote: |
I am OK with trying Hairston in left and letting EB come off the bench, and when Davonon is healthy look at the trade market..... |
With BoMel on the bench, however, the odds of Hairston starting in left with EB coming off the bench are VERY remote (as in, if perhaps EB has a near crippling injury that only allows him to do half dives)
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Hank, keep picking against my teams, please!!
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tmar
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| He could throw his back out flipping over a throw to third. |
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diamondbacker
MLB Rookie
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 120
Location: Diamondbacks Nation
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Byrnes is a good first-half guy, so i'd stick with him through the first half to showcase him, then deal him aroung the All-Star Break and watch the other team be dragged down  . |
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stu
Everyday Player
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 554
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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EB is definantly[sic, ironic for me to use this] a better fourth outfielder then Hairston.
(emphasis added)
I agree. |
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ibcrackin2
A-Ball Kid
Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 17
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:32 am Post subject: |
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I never said that it would happen. I am well aware that youth scares BoMel to death, and he avoids using it at all costs.
I was saying that I could live with the scenario of Hairston getting a shot in left and EB coming off the bench.
This scenario gives the Dbacks the best case scenario for trade value, and does little to diminish the teams quality while waiting for Davanon to get healthy.
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"What this team needs is a rain out" Crash Davis, Bull Durham |
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TSWINDERS
Journeyman
Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 389
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| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:56 am Post subject: |
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I think Scott needs to traded. He is too good of hitter to be starting once every 4 or 5 days. It is about time we do something in Scott's best interest which is to give him a shot with another team It is disappointing that we will lose him because dam he could hit.
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"I think we won 97 games while promoting guys like Chris Young, Carlos Quentin, Stephen Drew, Miguel Montero. When those guys go out there and help the big league team win, it feels great. For us." |
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tmar
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| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| Totally agree. It'll be bitter sweet seeing him go. |
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shoewizard
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Location: In front of my computer
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| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| TSWINDERS wrote: |
| I think Scott needs to traded. He is too good of hitter to be starting once every 4 or 5 days. It is about time we do something in Scott's best interest which is to give him a shot with another team It is disappointing that we will lose him because dam he could hit. |
The only thing that drives one crazy here is that due to lack of opportunity, and also injury, he just has very little trade value. It's crazy. If given 500 at bats in the majors, you just know Josh's phone would be ringing every day with teams trying to get Hairston.
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dirtygary
Everyday Player
Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 880
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, it's a bummer that he's caught a few bad breaks when he's been called up. But he coulda helped himself out by being a better defender at 2B. A switch to a position where he doesn't accel at his age/stage of development was terrible for him.
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kris
September Call-Up
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 75
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| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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D-backs outfield looks loaded. Davanon is 4th outfielder.
That leaves David Krynzel and Hairston.
I believe both are out of options. So they have to be on big league roster.
Not to mention, i recently saw an article, where JB and Melvin are toying with idea of using Callespo in the outfield too. The reason here is, D-backs dont have a designated leadoff hitter. Hence they like to insert Callespo in the lineup anyway possible (infield/outfield).
What about super util, Hammock? He can play corner infields/outfields.
Where does that leave Hairston?
I am thinking, since offense is not a problem, Hairston can be used to Back up 3rd base. He used to be 2nd baseman in minors. I believe, he played 2nd base in big leagues in 2004. So infield is not new concept for him.
Callespo will backup SS, 2nd base and outfield.
Hairston can backup 3rd base and outfield.
That way D-backs can give some AT BATS to hairston, rather than trading him.
That leaves Barden back to AAA.
Next season, Byrnes is gone. We are not sure if Carlos Gonzalez will be ready. Scotty will be a good stop gap player(earsns only $300K+), untill Carlos is ready.
Krynzel is just a throw-in in Davis deal. I wonder if he will make 25 man roster. If he does, then Bo Mel will have Krynzel, scotty, Callespo, Hammock to play corner outfield any time.
I feel bad for Scotty and D-backs.
D-backs cant trade him, becos his value is low.
Scotty cant get enough AT BATS, becos of the EB.
Backing up 3rd base along with LF might give some AT BATS for scotty. |
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shoewizard
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Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 3145
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| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Has Hariston ever played one professional inning at 3b? |
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kris
September Call-Up
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 75
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| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Has Hariston ever played one professional inning at 3b?
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Playing scotty at 3rd base is not that he will excel there.
He can get some at BATS.
For someone, who played 2nd base, handling 3rd base or 1st base should not be a problem. Its about adjustment.
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qudjy1
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Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 1101
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| Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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As much as i want SH to play... I think he would make Tracy look like a goldglover at 3b...
Fielding Stats at 3rd not good... |
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