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allstar
Everyday Player
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Posts: 798
Location: Chandler, AZ
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 Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:39 pm Post subject: Diamondbacks and the NL West Rotations |
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Okay. Who has the best rotation from these five (5)?
AZ
Webb-Hernandez-Davis-???-???
COL
Jennings-Francis-Cook-Kim-???
LAD
Schmidt-Lowe-Penny(?)-Billingsley-Wolf
SD
Peavy-Maddux-Hensley-???-???
SF
Morris-Lowry-Cain-???-???
Right now, the Dodgers. But if we could somehow fill the other two with some good names. We'll be good. Hopefully tonight or tomarrow.
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Life is fantastic when you're me. lol.
Studying hard to become the GM of the Diamondbacks. Good luck to me. |
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Otacon
Journeyman
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 303
Location: Tucson, Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Add Chris Young to San Diego's rotation. |
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B. O. N. D.
Veteran Presence
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 2441
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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Penny, Jennings, and Lowrey have all been mentioned in trades, FWIW.
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baldmaga
Veteran Presence
Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 1238
Location: Louisiana
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| We can only hope Arizona is intent on sending some of their many prospects off for a great starter. |
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qudjy1
Hall of Famer
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 4283
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| baldmaga wrote: |
| We can only hope Arizona is intent on sending some of their many prospects off for a great starter. |
I hope you are wrong
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Arizona Diamondbacks - 2007 NL West Champions
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Dangerfield
Veteran Presence
Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 1564
Location: worm factory
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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Will Aaron Cook finally live up to his potential? The next Dave Duncan reclamation project? The guy could overpower for 9 innings and 110 pitches. Dodgers just gave up a ton of intangibles for Billingsly and Lowe. Balsey does a good job, is he staying or going with Bochy? Cain and Lowry are the only two pitchers on the giants staff, going to be a long year for Giant fans. Our staff is Maui no ka oi.
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My wife is always trying to get rid of me. The other day she told me to put the garbage out. I said to her I already did. She told me to go and keep an eye on it...and kurkjian is a jinx |
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TAP
Face of the Franchise
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 7716
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Dangerfield wrote: |
| Our staff is Maui no ka oi. |
Maui is the best?
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Dangerfield
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Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 1564
Location: worm factory
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| baldmaga wrote: |
| We can only hope Arizona is intent on sending some of their many prospects off for a great starter. |
Like a Cy Young candidate? Livian is a perenniel 1 at the end of year, and everyone's favorite to watch, in the end. I predict he will be here as well. You'll get his style at the end. We'll see how he shows up to st. Doug Davis is another battler. I'm not ready to go out on a limb with who the other two will be yet, but at least Edgar gives us hope. Enrique gives me hope, if he has the endurance. He has the ability. Owings should probably just hang in aaa. heck I wonder if Papa should be traded for another young starter, and Owings become the closer for a year a la Papelbon.
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My wife is always trying to get rid of me. The other day she told me to put the garbage out. I said to her I already did. She told me to go and keep an eye on it...and kurkjian is a jinx
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McCray
Veteran Presence
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 1616
Location: clawing my eyes out, praying for sleep. booyah.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Owings should probably just hang in aaa. heck I wonder if Papa should be traded for another young starter, and Owings become the closer for a year a la Papelbon. |
you know, i'm not 100% opposed to this like i figured i would be. a lot of teams have had great success giving kids the first year to work stuff out from the 'pen, and then looking at having them make the transition to starter. i'd probably prefer giving him the year in AAA to keep his head focused on starting and working on his offspeed stuff, but it would vastly improve the 'pen adding him at the back end. IF his fastball's not too hittable come spring...
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dirtygary
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Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 2225
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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I'm torn on this method. If a kid's ready, than he's ready and give him the ball. But it all depends on the situation. In Boston's case, they were in contention for the division and didn't have the luxury of giving a kid a chance to work out the kinks in the 5-man. His closer role was great because he could get acclimated, was in a position for success, and it was low-profile.
In our case, I'd like that method if we moved some of our more expensive bullpen guys and let our future starters get their feet wet out of the pen. But only if we moved our bigger $ bp arms, and got something back that would help us with losing a year of service in a watered down bullpen role.
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Espo
MLB Rookie
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 180
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Dangerfield wrote: |
I'm not ready to go out on a limb with who the other two will be yet, but at least Edgar gives us hope. |
Edgar isn't someone who should give you hope. He is the pitching version of Luis Terrero. He is a guy you will see this club cut their losses with in the next few years.
As for Micah Owings I think he is a starter or middle reliever not a closer. He just doesn't have the stuff to really blow guys away. Dana Eveland is the young pitcher i think surprise everyone in the spring.
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levski
Hall of Famer
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 4503
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Espo wrote: |
Edgar isn't someone who should give you hope. He is the pitching version of Luis Terrero. He is a guy you will see this club cut their losses with in the next few years.
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Just curious, but why do you think so?
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Espo
MLB Rookie
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 180
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Lets just say I know some people close to the situation who have told me stories about Edgar and his mental make up isn't exactly stellar. |
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levski
Hall of Famer
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 4503
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Espo wrote: |
| Lets just say I know some people close to the situation who have told me stories about Edgar and his mental make up isn't exactly stellar. |
Ah, the usual "I know guys who know guys who cut the grass for the friend of the neighbor of third cousin of Edgar's father" story. Gotcha.
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Espo
MLB Rookie
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 180
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| No its more direct than that. As in I've worked for the Tucson club. |
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levski
Hall of Famer
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 4503
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Espo wrote: |
| No its more direct than that. As in I've worked for the Tucson club. |
Hey, everyone knows that Edgar is a headcase. Many people know that he quit on the Dbacks when they drafted him and went home. Some people know that he had periods where he would get all mental on everyone and just quit on the team... which would piss off coaches and his teammates. A few people may even know more than that...
The mental aspect of Edgar's game isn't really a big secret, even if it hasn't been talked much. The guy had the stuff to be called up 2 years ago; what he didn't have was the mental aspect to harness his stuff and success here. The Dbacks, however, certainly didn't do him any favors by rushing him and then letting him get hammered in 2004. Getting pummeled in 2004 (and there was a lot of talk that it was Al Pedrique punishing him out there for his mental "problems") certainly couldn't have helped Edgar's confidence.
Sometimes I think that a team like the Dbacks is the wrong place for young players. Especially players that aren't top picks in the draft, and thus aren't protected, or players that are deemed mental. That was the case with Terrero, which is OK, because he wasn't very good. That was the case with JPatterson, which was bad because he was very good.
I fear that may be the case with Edgar, who has talent but whom the team may sour on very quickly. That may be the case with Nippert who, like Edgar, has tons of talent but has rather fragile self confidence. If the Dbacks cannot figure out how to protect and help the guys who do have more fragile confidence and aren't bulldogs like Brandon Webb, for example, this team will be bleeding talent through the fingers. And you can add Scott Hairston to the list of players that this team will probably lose because the organization doesn't have a fucking clue how to deal with them.
It certainly doesn't help that the manager himself doesn't appear to have a good idea how to encourage and nourish and help young players. That's a recipe for disaster if I ever saw one.
Edgar will be just fine if the Dbacks let him play.
Last edited by levski on Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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levski
Hall of Famer
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 4503
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, and I certainly was joking when I said you cut the grass at the TEP. I was trying to be all Borat on the board today. Peace.
And do share insights. But do explain stuff as well. That usually helps |
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Espo
MLB Rookie
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 180
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Overall I agree with your take on his talent and how some players who have talent have been handled withing the organization. But i feel that comes down to two things. A players internal desire to succeed and his coaches ability to teach him and train him how to get past mental blocks and his issues. Unless Edgar or any other player in the organization with talent but mental issues wants to be successful is a big part of and the coaches have to find ways to reach guys like this and help them past their "issues". |
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levski
Hall of Famer
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 4503
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Now, attacks of opinion are different from personal attacks. I hope you can see the difference. I have no opinion of you, or reasons to attack you. I was just taking issue with your cryptic messages and your attempts to get away with vague claims by just saying that you were there and you saw it.
I think Edgar is young enough and he can learn. I also think that he does need more tender loving care from the front office and BoMel to succeed. Of the younger kids, I think Edgar and Nippert will need a lot more attention and patience than some of the others. While utlimately the players need to make the mental adjustment and "grow up" once they in the show, the Dbacks need to take steps to provide some comfort and consistency to give them the confidence and insurance to grow up as well.
It doesn't help at all when a player is yanked up and down over 3 years, like Edgar was. It doesn't help when Edgar spent his time in the majors in 2004 being punished by Pedrique. When you consider that Edgar was 20 years old at the time, and that most people spend their days playing video games at 20, while he was already in the majors, it makes you realize how special he could be. If given the time and attention.
Again, I have the sneaking suspicion that that Dbacks are a pretty fucked up organization when it comes to guys like Edgar (and probably Nippert). I can only hope that the front office has enough appreciation of the talent that Edgar and Nippert and Hairston have to force the manager to play them.
Last edited by levski on Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Espo
MLB Rookie
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 180
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| I agree with that take on the situation. The organization needs to take a long hard look at how they handle young talent that may not be mature yet. I think thats an issue that has to be addressed from the top down and Josh Byrnes has to take a long hard look at. I mean the Braves didn't get home grown pitching talent by handling them the way the Dbacks have. The Dbacks have probably done as much damage to Edgar as he has done to himself. |
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levski
Hall of Famer
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 4503
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Espo wrote: |
| I agree with that take on the situation. The organization needs to take a long hard look at how they handle young talent that may not be mature yet. I think thats an issue that has to be addressed from the top down and Josh Byrnes has to take a long hard look at. I mean the Braves didn't get home grown pitching talent by handling them the way the Dbacks have. The Dbacks have probably done as much damage to Edgar as he has done to himself. |
See, we can agree on stuff  Now, just back off Chris Young 
Last edited by levski on Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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Espo
MLB Rookie
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 180
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm all for BoMel getting the ax so we can agree on two things. |
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levski
Hall of Famer
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 4503
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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I just hope that Bob Melvin never mentions again that he wants Eric Byrnes batting 4th...
Last edited by levski on Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:42 am; edited 1 time in total |
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tmar
Veteran Presence
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 2351
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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Until this last year I think they were using Bomel to make us wish Grace would be the manager.  |
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B. O. N. D.
Veteran Presence
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 2441
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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Does this man look like he needs tender loving care?
This man looks like he's ready to kick some ass.
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