Diamondbacks Bullpen

[shoewizard]

My thoughts about the last two spots in the rotation:

I don't think they should be basing their decision on who does better in the spring. (See Steve Gilberts mailbag thread) Thats bullshit....too few innings when the guys are just trying to get their "groove" back.

I think they need to set their rotation, all five spots, and have the guys focus on getting ready, and not worrying about having a bad inning on March 17th blow their chances of making the rotation.

I say choose 2 guys out of Edgar, Enrique, and Cruz, and stick the other one in the pen. Out of these 3 guys,

Edgar Gonzalez: I would definitely have Edgar in the rotation. As we have discussed before, he is much better suited to starting than relieving due to his command of 4 pitches, all of which are pretty good, none of which are great. So Basically Edgar is your 4th starter. He is out of options, and they would be wise to just put him in there, and let him gain some value. He has been Yanked around so much in his short career. If they would just commit to him right out of the box, NOW, and say Edgar, a rotation spot is yours....get yourself ready, and then work with him all spring on improving his overall game with an eye towards getting ready for the season, I am sure he can get off to a decent start.

Juan Cruz: I would like to see Juan get one more chance at starting. Unless there is something we just can't see, or he is too fragile and his shoulder won't hold up, in which case they should just trade him for whatever they can get and not fuck around.

Enrique Gonzalez: If they don't go with Juan as the 5th starter, then they should give the 5th spot to Enrique. After a fast start, he really kinda sucked the last couple months of the season, but he may have been tired, who knows. He deserves another shot, for sure.

So Either of these two should be designated the 5th starter heading into spring, and the other sent to the pen, and they should get ready for the season accordingly. If the one who is named the 5th starter has a shitty April after having all spring to get ready....well then tough luck. Move the other guy in there after 5 starts or so.

Beyond that, all the rest of the Candidates should start in AAA, including Eveland. He needs to work himself into the D Backs system, and prove himself in this organization and in the tough pitchers environment of TEP.

I think if you have a rotation in Tucson of Dustin Nippert, Ross Ohlendorf, Micah Owings, Eveland, Evan MacLane then you just wait and see who does the best out of these guys, and promote one of them if and when one of Cruz or Gonzalez falters.

I have to say....going through this exercise and working it out here, I think that Cruz is trade bait, unless they have a specific plan to make him a full time reliever with no intent of using him as a starter at all. He has value to the team either way, it's just hard for me to let go of his potential upside as a starter. My guess is it's just a durability and health issue, and they might just think he will never be able to go 7 innings very often at all, and won't even average 6 IP per start.

I will end with my main premise. I think they need to decide BEFORE spring training starts who they want at 4 & 5, and not have some half assed spring training competition for a the last spot. Make a decision and allow the pitchers to prepare accordingly, and you will get better results.

[NJ-DBACKS-FAN]

i like the gonzo brothers (know they are not related) jaun was nice but seem to lose some of his control late in games, he would be a perfect long man, or a spot start if needed........miggy would be ideal but looks like he is gone.......


what about nippert, Owings? nippert did not look great last year with the big club, is the handwritting on the wall? im hoping he is going to turn it around.....Owings......to young???
_________________
Not many D-Back fans in NJ.....


Like to think im a trend setter

[shoewizard]

Nippert still has an option year. He still needs to find a way to get his mechanics under control and more consistent, always a struggle for tall guys.

They need to make a decision on Nippert by the end of 2007. He should be de facto first in line for a promotion...but he has to keep his "pecking order status" by pitching well in Tucson to start 2007.

[qudjy1]

I agree with just about everything here. That is, if the roster stays how it is now. I still think i would like to see one more pitching acquisition - and cruz and byrnes could make a nice package for some team.

Otherwise, i agree that i think you go with the guys that have been up with the team - esp when you consider that enrique is out of options (is that right?) If i had to choose now - Edgar and Enrique are my starters now, and i put cruz in the pen - who i think could be a real solid 7th-8th inning guy.

[EvilJuan]

Will Rogers once said, "I don't belong to an organized political party; I'm a Democrat." At times, I'm tempted to say, "I don't root for an organized baseball team. I'm a Diamondbacks fan."

Shoe, your proposal appears (to me, at least) to be well-thought-out and worth a try. It makes sense to me (which is usually a death knell...) to set the rotation early, and allow the pitchers to work themselves into shape without the "competition" to earn a spot in spring training. Let the competition take place in a more meaningful fashion: the guys at the top have to prove themselves worthy to stay there; and the guys in Tucson have to prove themselves worthy of being called up for their shot if/when one of the top guys falters.

So: Who makes the call on how things are handled (either a la Shoe or ST competition)? Melvin? Josh Byrnes? (My guess would be that Melvin makes the decision, and that don't bode well for Shoe's plan...)
_________________
Is It Next Season Yet?

[shoewizard]

I have no illusions....the spring training competitions for the final spot in the rotation is almost as big a tradition as hopping over the first base line.

The other reason I like doing it the way I propose is because that way Josh and his team can assert themselves more on the final decision. The more it depends on a spring training competition, the more Josh is going to have to cede decision making power on this issue to Melvin and Price.

[Projekt]

Personally, I would give MacLane a look for the 5th starter. Start him in AAA, and if he continues his minor league success give him a shot at the starting rotation. TEP is a hitters park, so success there would indicate that he is ready for the bigs. Also (and I know it is overrated), having 2 lefty's in the rotation would be nice, as it keeps teams from getting comfortable in the batters box. Over the course of any particular series(unless its a 2 game series), there would be at least 1 LHP starter (assuming Davis is 3 and MacLane is 5).


Though the lefty thing should just be an added bonus. If others are out pitching him, they should start. I like Edgar at #4, I think he his ready to preform at the big league level. I would like to see us deal Byrnes for another good proven SP. I think our bullpen should be decent next year with no real additions. Our 1-3 SPs are good for at least 7 innings in most games (if not more), and will keep our pen fresh throughout the season. Hopefully Melvin will manage the pen well and not over use arms.

[NJ-DBACKS-FAN]

[shoewizard]

I remember MELVIN saying before spring training started that Halsey was his favorite for the 5th spot, but I remember at the time thinking that Melvin was speaking out of turn, as I did not think Josh was necessarily on board with that decision.

[matt]

I like that idea. By deciding things now we don't end up with Daigle as the 5th starter. That Tucson rotation will be really nice.

[shoewizard]

Well,I probably should have read this article before making my post. It looks like they are still trying to make a trade. And of course Igawa is still a possibility. Although I don't see the point in spending so much on a guy that projects to be a back of the rotation starter, when the team literally has EIGHT GUYS who could fill that role.

[Aaron]

I agree with that approach Shoe. Unless some of the guys with options show that they are significantly more worthy of starting in the bigs right away, what's the rush? Give the guys that are already up the chance to prove themselves. There will be opportunities for everyone, eventually.

That said, why the rush to trade Cruz? At the very least isn't he an extremely valuable asset in the bullpen? With how expensive even MRs are these days, I'd be very careful not to just throw Cruz into some deal. And I'm with you, I'd still like to see him given another shot at starting. My prediction for him is that he settles in as someone's closer within the next few years and does an above average job. And he'll have that one great season that will make him a lot of money...

[shoewizard]

I too have wondered if he would make a good closer. He certainly has the stuff. If they ever trust his control, no doubt he could be a good closer.