Diamondbacks Bullpen

[TAP]

Let the McGwire debate begin.

This year's full ballot:
Harold Baines, Albert Belle, Dante Bichette, Bert Blyleven, Bobby Bonilla, Scott Brosius, Jay Buhner, Ken Caminiti, Jose Canseco, Dave Concepcion, Eric Davis, Andre Dawson, Tony Fernandez, Steve Garvey, Rich "Goose" Gossage, Tony Gwynn, Orel Hershiser, Tommy John, Wally Joyner, Don Mattingly, Mark McGwire, Jack Morris, Dale Murphy, Paul O'Neill, Dave Parker, Jim Rice, Cal Ripken Jr., Bret Saberhagen, Lee Smith, Alan Trammell, Devon White, Bobby Witt.

[shoewizard]

My Ballot

Blyleven

Gwynn

McGwire

Ripken

Trammell



My "bubble" guys who fall just short are Belle, Dawson, Gossage, & John

[David B]

My ballot would be the same as shoewizard's, plus Gossage. In reality, Gwynn and Ripken will definitely get in, and McGwire probably falls jsut short on his first try due to the protest non-vote.

[moviegeekjn]

Ditto on David's sentiments...

Ripken & Gwynn are shoe-ins, and expect that either Blyleven or Gossage will squeak in (but not both). McGwire will get left off too many ballots to make it first time around, but likely voted in within the next two years.

[Oden]

Gwynn, Ripken, Blyleven and Chuck Norris. I'm always on the fence about Gossage, but he really could be there as well. If he never gets voted in, the veteran's committee will certain get him in.
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Oden
Anal Mod Squad

[matt]

The decision on McGwire should give an indication of Barry's fate. If he gets in on the first vote than the voters have no fucking right to shun Barry.

[David B]

That's for damn sure, matt. Bonds is a far superior player to McGwire. You either have to hold the performance enhanced thing against both of them, or can't hold it against either. If McGwire gets in on the first ballot but Bonds doesn't, it defintely leaves the door open to play the race card.

[McCray]

shoe, on trammell: really? i grew up watching the guy, but never really saw him as a HOFer. what makes him that caliber in your eyes?
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Hank, you're dead to me.

[shoewizard]

Excellent defense for a long time, well above average offense for a shortstop, robbed of an MVP in 87, he was far and away the best player that year...

He is overshadowed by Ripken, and in latter years, with the likes of A-Rod , Tejada, et al coming on the scene his offense doesn't look as impressive.

But if you make a list of all the shortstops in the hall of fame, and then stick trammels numbers alongside them, and then consider his excellent defense, add in all the years on the same team, and finally sprinkle on a great post season in 84 that included WS MVP, and to me, that is a Hall of Famer

[David B]

I also think Lou Whitaker got a fast hook, and should have gotten way more consideration for the Hall. His top three comps are Sandberg, Trammell and Robbie Alomar, the latter two should join Ryno in the HOF one day.

[McCray]

huh. his defense was incredible -- truly a thing to behold. i remember going to a game as a very young child, and just being amazed at how early trammell started running and how much ground he covered. on tv, he always just seemed to pop onscreen, and i figured he'd been just offscreen. but the amount of ground that man could cover getting to a screaming line drive really took my breath away.

i think that was the first moment i really started to understand great fielding.

i don't disagree with your point, btw. he could very well be a HOF caliber. but i don't think i can really say one way or another. i'm too close to the guy, in a weird way. i had a poster of him above my bed as a kid. he was my first non-dad hero. so i guess to me, alan trammell was the best baseball player to ever play the game. it's just sort of a shock to learn that not all of it was my boyhood delusion of his greatness, and that he was actually pretty good.
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Hank, you're dead to me.

[shoewizard]

I really don't think there is any doubt he was one of the 20 greatest shortstops ever to play the game.

[qudjy1]

I dont want to change the subject of this discussion, but i wanted to add that whoever hasnt been to cooperstown, should really make the trip. I happen to be from a town just a little more than an hour or so south of there, and have been there several times, and it is a great experience.

Anyway, carry on..

[shoewizard]

I was born in Cooperstown......

No shit...I have the birth Certificate to prove it.

My Grandfather owned a farm in a small town called Otsego just down the road a piece, and Cooperstown had the nearest hospital. My mom was visiting her parents at the time, and after I was born, we went back down to Long Island where I grew up.

True story.

[foulpole]

[stu]

I pretty much agree with the consensus except I would not vote for McGwire because of the steroids issue. Once you elect someone you can't unelect them so I would opt for caution. If McGwire decides to do somthing other than ignore the claims then I might change my mind. As of the now, the evidence is suffucient for me not to vote him into the HOF.

I would vote for Gossage. I have trouble evaluating closers as HOF worthy, but now that Sutter is in, there is no reason not to elect Gossage. FWIW, James has 5 relievers in his top 100 pitchers. In order Wilhelm, Gossage (37), Eckersly, Sutter (57) and Quisenberry.

James has Trammel as his 9th greatest ss of all time, between Cronin and Reese, but this was circa 2001. A-rod, Jeter, Garciapara and Tejeda (who is not even listed) are behind him. With the additional years, you probably have to drop Trammel 2-4 spots, but this still puts him (as shoe says) easily in the top 20 of all time.

Whitaker has some nice overall stats, but was platooned somewhat during his career. From age 29 on, he played 144, 149, 115, 148, 132, 138, 130, 119, 92 and 84 games. I think a HOFer has to play more or be completely dominant when he does play. With a long career, his overall numbers look good and he was an asset to his teams.

[Hank]

[shoewizard]

Here is a Minority View that has some merit

[shoewizard]

Then Again??

[matt]

Sammy weighs in on McGwire. Want to guess what his opinion is?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2683234

[tmar]

It's kind of sad that he wants to come back. I could see one of the more cash-strapped, non-contending clubs offer him a cheap 1 year deal just to see what he'd draw.

[David B]

Bringing this one back near the top, as the HOF voting will be announced on Tuesday. Tom Haudricourt of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel wrote an interesting column, and quotes an informal poll that shows McGwire's support in the 20-30 % range (which is even lower than a lot of people expected).

From the article...

Longtime St. Louis baseball reporter Rick Hummel, who was elected to the writer's wing of the Hall of Fame in December, said he thought McGwire's performance before Congress nixed any chance he had of first-ballot election.

"Absolutely. No question about it," Hummel said. "I think too much emphasis was put on that but that's the way it is."

Hummel has been polling other baseball writers in recent weeks regarding their intention to vote or not vote for McGwire for the Hall of Fame. The response has been even worse for McGwire than Hummel expected.

"I envisioned him being in the 30% to 40% range (of total ballots cast)," Hummel said. "Now, it looks more like between 20% and 30%. A lot of voters aren't writing him off totally but they don't want to vote for him now. That's fair."

[shoewizard]

If it's as low as 20%, he may never get in. Thats alot of minds to change.

[NJ-DBACKS-FAN]

[David B]

It's Ripken and Gwynn

NEW YORK -- As anticipated, the dynamic duo of eight-time National League batting champion Tony Gwynn and Iron Man Cal Ripken Jr. earned election to the National Baseball Hall of Fame on Tuesday, both having attained nearly the highest percentage of votes in history.
On the ballot for the first time, the pair will be inducted into the Hall of Fame in Cooperstown on July 29. They will be joined by any candidates elected in the Hall of Fame Veterans Committee election, the results of which will be announced on Feb. 27.

Ripken garnered 98.53 percent of the vote, the third highest in balloting history done by veteran members of the Baseball Writers' Association of America, but the most for a position player. Ripken finished behind Tom Seaver (98.83 in 1992) and Nolan Ryan (98.79 in 1999). Gwynn's percentage of 97.6 percent, based on his 532 votes, ranks seventh all-time.

Mark McGwire, also a ballot newcomer, fell well short of election, his name appearing on less than a quarter of the record 545 ballots cast, two of which were left completely blank.

There is good news and bad news for Rich "Goose" Gossage, the reliever who is creeping ever so close to his day in the Cooperstown sun. The bad news is that this time Gossage came up 21 votes shy of the 75 percent needed to ascend to the Hall. The good news is that with a much thinner ballot next year, Gossage seems to be on the cusp.

On the ballot for the eighth year, the Goose came in at 71.2 percent, an increase from his 64.6 percent a year ago. In the history of the BBWAA Hall of Fame voting, no candidate has ever received at least 70 percent in an election without eventually gaining a place in Cooperstown. Most recently, Don Sutton (73.2 percent in 1997) and Gaylord Perry (72.1 percent) gained election the very next year.

McGwire received enough votes to carry him over until next year, but his 23.5 percent (128 votes) was a resounding rebuff from an electorate which suspected that the slugger, who finished his 16-year career with 583 homers, was part of Major League Baseball's so-called steroid era.

Of the 17 first-timers on the ballot, only McGwire and Harold Baines received enough votes to carry them over. Five years after he retires, a player has 15 years of eligibility on the ballot, but he must receive at least 5 percent of the vote each year to maintain that status.

With the addition of Gwynn and Ripken to the Hall, 280 members have now been elected, including 198 former Major League players -- 105 of them by BBWAA, whose voters must have at least 10 years of consecutive membership to receive a ballot.

Jim Rice and Andre Dawson, who like Gossage, received more than 60 percent of the vote last year, both lost a little ground this year.