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foulpole
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Joined: 10 Aug 2006
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 Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 2:58 pm Post subject: Tracy at 1st??? |
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Ya know,
If we moved Tracy to 1st ( where he played very well last year ) we could solve two of our biggest defensive problems with one move.
Can Callaspo play 3rd??? |
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TAP
Face of the Franchise
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 7709
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 3:11 pm Post subject: Re: Tracy at 1st??? |
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| foulpole wrote: |
Ya know,
If we moved Tracy to 1st ( where he played very well last year ) we could solve two of our biggest defensive problems with one move.
Can Callaspo play 3rd??? |
And Jackson's bat goes where?
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Robert S.
Hall of Famer
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 2942
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Sweet, the worst-hitting 1B and 3B in baseball! |
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shoewizard
Face of the Franchise
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 8816
Location: In front of my computer
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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FP...Conor has gotten much better at first.
I don't think you like Conor very much....LOL |
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shoewizard
Face of the Franchise
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 8816
Location: In front of my computer
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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Jackson is about middle of the pack among major league first baseman in
Zone Rating
His fielding percentage is in the lower 3rd....but one or two less errors and that is middle of the pack too. In fact it's been a while since Jackson made an error I believe.
Furthermore, he seems to be getting a better handle on which balls to play and which ones to let go to Hudson.
Progress is slow...but I see progress.
Anyway, between this...and your post on the first pitch strike you wanted him to hack at...your agenda is showing. Thats ok...we ALL have agendas....I have an agenda to get Green out of town.
Of course...some agendas are better than others.  |
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foulpole
Hall of Famer
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 4089
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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My only "agenda" is to see the D-Backs win Division Titles, NL Titles and World Series Trophies.
I truly hope that we can agree that Tracy did a much better job at 1st last year than C J has this year.
I feel that Tracy's defensive struggles have an impact on his offensive performance as well. I have not looked at the numbers but intuitively it sure seems that he did much better at the plate while playing 1st.
Less for him to worry about and we have him signed on a pretty good deal for a few more years if he gets back to the numbers from last year and concentrates on spraying the ball it's a smokin' deal.
Then we also add a lefty at 1st as we are going to lose Gonzo ( at the end of this year ) and Greene ( who knows when ) and add right handed bats in Q and Hairston and if Young comes up we have another righty (another reason why I would like to see us keep DaVanon ).
Callaspo is a switch so if we can work him into the mix that would give us more lineup flexibility. |
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stu
Veteran Presence
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 1803
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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I think Callaspo would be an outstanding defensive 3b in the Counsell mode, but he lacks the power you need from 3b especially since the Dbacks don't have power elsewhere. If this changes (and CQ and Young have the potential), then maybe Callaspo at 3b and leading off.
Jackson and/or Tracy could be trade material in the off season. Their value was higher when Dylan suggested trading Jackson and I suggested trading Tracy (I like Tracy you just have to give something to get something).
Right now I don't like the idea. We just need Tracy to play better. He showed the ability at the start of the season defensively and O the start of this year and the second half of last year.
Just be patient. He needs something, but I can't be 100% sure what. |
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TAP
Face of the Franchise
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 7709
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| stu wrote: |
We just need Tracy to play better. He showed the ability at the start of the season defensively and O the start of this year and the second half of last year.
Just be patient. He needs something, but I can't be 100% sure what. |
Tracy leads AZ in errors with 18 (far ahead of 2nd place Counsell's 8 ) and he also leads AZ in K's with 103 (again far ahead of 2nd place Hudson's 63 ).
Incidentally, Chad also leads all NL 3B in errors and the only 3B in all of MLB with more errors than Chad is A-Rod with 20. Chad also leads all NL 3B in K's and again the only 3B in all of MLB with more K's is A-Rod with 105. Maybe NY has a right to be booing.
Was Tracy's extenson premature?
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stu
Veteran Presence
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 1803
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| BTW, on that pitch to Jackson, I had the same thought as fp. I'll, of course, accept shoe's accurate view from the replay but from the first camera angle in real time, it didn't look bad. |
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Dylan
Journeyman
Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 418
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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So, just to make sure I have it clear:
When Jackson was hitting worse than Tracy, it was "Trade Jackson away"
When Tracy is hitting worse than Jackson, it's now "Move Tracy to 1B and trade Jackson away"?
Is this correct? |
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foulpole
Hall of Famer
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 4089
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| stu wrote: |
I think Callaspo would be an outstanding defensive 3b in the Counsell mode, but he lacks the power you need from 3b especially since the Dbacks don't have power elsewhere. If this changes (and CQ and Young have the potential), then maybe Callaspo at 3b and leading off.
Jackson and/or Tracy could be trade material in the off season. Their value was higher when Dylan suggested trading Jackson and I suggested trading Tracy (I like Tracy you just have to give something to get something).
Right now I don't like the idea. We just need Tracy to play better. He showed the ability at the start of the season defensively and O the start of this year and the second half of last year.
Just be patient. He needs something, but I can't be 100% sure what. |
I'm with you on the power issue from the corners ( 1st, 3rd, LF and RF ) but if we hang on to Estrada ( which I hope we do for 1 or 2 more years ) any production from the 2 spot is a bonus and we get the extra pop from Drew at ss that I have seen so far I think Q has the power issue figured out then we may be able to give something up at 3b from a power standpoint. It would be up to Hairston in left to provide a little pop.
Just a few thoughts.
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Oden
Everyday Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 822
Location: Gilbert, AZ
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Jackson this year: 281/369/434/803
Tracy this year: 278/337/447/784 |
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TAP
Face of the Franchise
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 7709
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Oden wrote: |
Jackson this year: 281/369/434/803
Tracy this year: 278/337/447/784 |
Clearly since Tracy is hitting worse than Jackson and Tracy is fielding worse than Jackson, we'd better replace Jackson at 1st with Tracy. 
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Oden
Everyday Player
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Posts: 822
Location: Gilbert, AZ
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| It's just funny where the fingers get pointed when things are going wrong - or at least could be better. Is there a finger reserved for Melvin's rationale when writing down the lineup? Should a guy hitting 179/238/487 this month still be leading off - every game? |
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foulpole
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Posts: 4089
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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You can't compare 1st to 3rd on D numbers TAP.
We all know that you hide your weak defensive players at 1st and LF ( especially in the NL ).
Run Tracy's defensive Henry the VIII ( castle adjusted ) numbers from last year vs C J's from this year ( which I have not ) and tell me that C J is a better defensive 1st baseman than Tracy.
Plus I argue that Tracy's O numbers are much better when he plays 1st. |
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foulpole
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Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 4089
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Oden wrote: |
| It's just funny where the fingers get pointed when things are going wrong - or at least could be better. Is there a finger reserved for Melvin's rationale when writing down the lineup? Should a guy hitting 179/238/487 this month still be leading off - every game? |
If your finger stays erect for more than 4 hours.....???
Where did I see that???
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Oden
Everyday Player
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Posts: 822
Location: Gilbert, AZ
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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Moving a defensively average player to 1st base for a defensive upgrade over a league average player (defensively and offensively) is asinine. That's focusing on entirely the wrong area if you want to improve your team.
Jackson is in his first full year and has been jerked around. If the excuse for pulling him late in innings (when Clark was healthy) is for a defensive upgrade, it's unwarranted anymore. He's good at first and he's getting better. If the excuse for sitting Jackson in place of Green at first is that Green hits righties better, it's bullshit.
If Jackson has improved over the course of his first season enough to warrant playing every game, all game, leave him the hell alone. In comparison, Tracy was put back to 3rd base where he was most comfortable and hasn't been touched this year. His defense and offense have been worse. Why fuck with 2 players for a negative gain? |
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Catharsis
Everyday Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 536
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| foulpole wrote: |
We all know that you hide your weak defensive players at 1st and LF ( especially in the NL ).
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Then why is Green in RF?
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DesertKnight
Everyday Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 806
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Oden wrote: |
| Why fuck with 2 players for a negative gain? |
In imitatio Melvini?
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TAP
Face of the Franchise
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 7709
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| foulpole wrote: |
Run Tracy's defensive numbers from last year vs C J's from this year (which I have not) and tell me that C J is a better defensive 1st baseman than Tracy.
Plus I argue that Tracy's O numbers are much better when he plays 1st. |
Tracy played only 80 games at 1st last year, and here were his #'s:
.996 FPCT, 10.37 Range Factor, .899 Zone Rating
In 2004 Tracy played 11 games at 1st, earning a .970 FPCT, 8.73 Range Factor, and .750 Zone Rating.
In 88 games played at 1st base this year, Jackson has a .993 FPCT, 9.97 Range Factor, and .848 Zone Rating.
I'm not sure who claimed Jackson was a better defensive 1st baseman than Tracy, but I'd submit to you that the difference in their 1st base D #'s is insignificant.
It's clear that since Tracy's extension was signed, his offense and defense have both declined significantly.
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levski
Hall of Famer
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 4486
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| It's clear that since Tracy's extension was signed, his offense and defense have both declined significantly. |
Methinks you're confusing correlation with causation.
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Then why is Green in RF?
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Because he can't play at 2B? What kind of a question is this? Green is in RF because the team owes him a lot of money and needs to play him at his best position if it would have any chance to trade him away.
Tracy's errors and struggles at the plate are frustrating. But here's my advice: relax and don't get your panties in a bunch. You guys are more impatient than a virgin on his wedding night. Chill out.
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TAP
Face of the Franchise
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 7709
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| levski wrote: |
| Quote: |
| It's clear that since Tracy's extension was signed, his offense and defense have both declined significantly. |
Methinks you're confusing correlation with causation.
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Not saying the extension was necessarily causative...just noting the correlation. One can draw their own conclusions.
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Catharsis
Everyday Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 536
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| levski wrote: |
| Quote: |
Then why is Green in RF?
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Because he can't play at 2B? What kind of a question is this? Green is in RF because the team owes him a lot of money and needs to play him at his best position if it would have any chance to trade him away.
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Relax, lev, I was just saying that Green's defense has looked ten times worse than Gonzo'a defense, therefore, if LF is for the worst defensive outfielder, why is Green in RF?
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levski
Hall of Famer
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 4486
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Catharsis wrote: |
| levski wrote: |
| Quote: |
Then why is Green in RF?
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Because he can't play at 2B? What kind of a question is this? Green is in RF because the team owes him a lot of money and needs to play him at his best position if it would have any chance to trade him away.
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Relax, lev, I was just saying that Green's defense has looked ten times worse than Gonzo'a defense, therefore, if LF is for the worst defensive outfielder, why is Green in RF?
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Because we can't move Gonzo to DH?
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Robert S.
Hall of Famer
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 2942
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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The Snakes should clean house and get a real defensive team out there for next season:
C - Furcal
1B - Everett
2B - Hudson
3B - Izturis
SS - Drew
LF - Vizquel
CF - Lugo
RF - Perez |
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