Diamondbacks Bullpen

[kris]

I am thinking about next year's starting rotation.
We all know it would be Webb, trade guy, Livan, vargas, one of the prospect

Here is a problem.

What about Livan Hernandez? I think he has one year $7 M left on his contract. After that he will be free agent.

There are 3 options now.

1. Do we trade him for TOP AAA Pitching Prospects.

2. Extend his contract by another couple of years. He is not getting any better, look at his ERA and compare to his previous years.

3. Play him this year and let him leave as free agent at the end of this season.


We gave up Matt Chico and Garret Mock, 2 top pitching propects for Livan.
I am sure Josh Brynes has some plans for Livan or may be not.

Matt Chico and Garret Mock will remind d-backs of Chris Capuano situation.
They will become that good. In 2 years they might remind us what a mistake we have done!

The mistake can be rectified, if we trade him for Top prospects.

Livan is a work horse. He will cross 200 innings for sure, if he is healthy.
he will give bullpen a much needed rest along with brandon Webb.
Isn't he coming from a Knee surgery?
I saw reports that he is not the same as before the surgery.

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Trade Livan
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Can he keep his ERA below 4.00? Is he gonna get worse than this season? (4.83)

But the thought of Livan leaving at the end of season as free agent is unacceptable.
Shall we trade him now for a top pitching prospect like Philip Hughes, from Yankees (Coupled with fringe players, if needed)?

We are all discussing about who the next top pitcher might be, that will support Webb abd Livan.
Which prospects are tradable for that Top pitcher and so on.

Lets trade Livan, while he still has value. We never know when he might become another Russ Ortiz.

D-backs are not going to win 2007 World series.
Atleast if we get a top AAA pitcher, he might get ready along with Upton and Carlos gonzalez.


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Extend Contract
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If we extend him, would that be 10 M /year?
In this pitching market, it could be even higher. Is he worth that much for a rebuilding team?
i guess he would demand the same contract as Jason Schmidt might get, which might be in the range of Roy oswalt(May be a couple of millions less).


***************************************************
Play him this year and let him leave as free agent
***************************************************

We all agree this is unacceptable.
Its like Alfonso Soriano situation in Washington. Either Mets or Phillies or Cubs going to outbid Washington for him.
Shall we wait untill the end of the season and do the same mistake as washington did with Soriano?
If we try to trade him at July 31st trade deadline, we are not going to get much in return,
because everyone knows he will be a 2 month rental and will become a free agent.

He is going to cost them again in the free agency.

So what shall josh brynes do about Livan?

[Tucson DBacks Fan]

The Diamondbacks should keep him and see how he does. They need a starter who is reliable for a number of innings. Levon is that guy. A team who needs pitchers should be keeping good ones they already have. They can wait to worry about his contract situation for 2008 until long after the 2007 season begins. If he is only with the Diamondbacks a year, that might be okay. A young pitcher or two might emerge before then who capably fill his spot in the rotation and not cost the team an arm and a leg. I look at him as a stopgap measure for next year with his role on the team for 2008 in limbo.

[matt]

Barring any surprises, Livan stays throughout the season. Past that, it will depend on his performance and the readiness of our prospects.

[kris]

Should we lose him at the end of next season, then its like we got nothing for Chico and Mock

[Pilgrim 33]

At the time we gave up Mock and Chico they were underperforming at AA in a pitcher's league. The acquistion of Livan saved some of our bullpen arms because it gave us another starter besides Webb (and on occasion Batista) who could go deep into games. I'm certainly glad that we're not talking about any of our bullpen arms needing surgery this offseason. When we got Livan we also still had a shot at winning the weak West and the added financial incentive of the playoffs. If he can be an innings eater again this season at 7 mil then his purpose will have been served until other facets of the rotation fall into place. Don't see them extending him beyond that unless he turns his numbers around significantly. If his presence is worth Mock and Chico remains to be seen.

[McCray]

chico and mock weren't great shakes. their upside was a ways away, and the team needed to stabilize the rotation now. outside of webb, we went into this year with nobody we could count on to finish the fifth or sixth.

livan's value isn't as a top dominant pitcher. it's as a guy who eats innings and keeps the team in games. it's as a guy who saves our bullpen from being torched.

livan isn't a game 1 starter in the playoffs, he isn't a dominant arm, but he does have tremendous value to this team. also: he's a lot better than you think he is.

4.83 era? ugly. 1.50 whip? yeesh! but he was recovering from a knee surgery this year -- look at the progress he made:

pre-asb: 5.94, 1.38 k:bb
post-asb: 3.61, 2.07 k:bb

so his control returned, his era dropped, his k/9 rose from 5.25 to 5.47, and his hr rate dropped from 1.43 to .97.

he's made a pretty impressive turn around so far. i'm not 100% sold yet, but he's definitely been a tremendous help to the rotation's stability.
_________________
Hank, you're dead to me.

[matt]

[JoshByrnesWhenIPee]

We should see how some our young pitchers do (Enrique Gonzalez, Juan Cruz, Tony Pena, Dustin Nippert, Micah Owings, Russ Ohlendorf, Steven Jackson), and if they're ready, we can trade Livan at the trade deadline, when he will be more valuable.

[kris]

According to scout.com, Mock and Chico are regarded highly.
Remember, who was washington's Assistant GM at that time. It was mike Rizzo, D-backs Scouting director until then. He knows about our farm better than any one.

If he wanted Chico and Mock that just tells you, how highly they are regarded. I dont believe that they werent great shakes.

[levski]

you cannot get top AAA pitching for livan. period.

mock has higher ceiling than chico, who's really a dime a dozen.

but az has several arms with higher upside than mock in the minors.

livan will remain in az through the end of next year, for certain. and pitch game 3 of the 2007 nlds
_________________
Old school Hollywood baseball,
Joe Girardi is ten feet tall,
Old school Hollywood baseball,
Me and Frenchy walk a ton.

And Tony Pena cuts in line...

[shoewizard]

[B. O. N. D.]

Still begs the question of who pitches Game 2.
_________________
Oops in the 2 hole!

[McCray]

[B. O. N. D.]

[McCray]

[tmar]

I was listening to Gambo & Ash today <they were the only ones talking baseball>, and Gambo is still convinced we will be going after Schmidt. The next 2 on his list are Lilly & Mulder.

The funniest part of the whole thing was that Ash listed of one of the sports writers top FA's that will be overpaid and Lilly & Schmidt were 1 & 2 <I think>.

[Tucson DBacks Fan]

I hope Gambo is right. I would love to see Jason Schmidt as a Diamondback.

[levski]

[levski]

[matt]

[matt]