Joined: 10 Aug 2006
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Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:13 am Post subject: How about Montero for Bonderman?
According to the Detroit News The Tigers are looking for a catching prospect to replace Pudge after 2007, they are likely to trade a starter, most likely Bonderman.
They are also looking for a left fielder perhaps, but I guess it's hoping too much the Eric Byrnes could reel in Bonderman.
I don't know... I think it would be one or the other, not both. If they are looking to aquire a catching prospect, who is better than Montero?
I wouldn't mind doing Montero for Bonderman, straight up... But that leaves us with Snyder and Estrada again... And I doubt that BoMel would sit Estrada for Snyder (like he should). But if we trade Estrada too, then its Snyder and Hammock as the catchers, and Robbie is a "Jack of all trades" type player now. (though he does catch a good game. Remember, he called the Perfect game)
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 3242
Location: In front of my computer
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:26 am Post subject:
I don't think the tigers would do Bonderman for Montero straight up, 1 for 1. In fact, I'm sure they wouldn't.
It would take additional pieces. I would have no problem at all if Eric Byrnes were that additional piece.
I think Estrada would be traded regardless....there is no way they keep him here. They would have to go with Snyder as the starter, and go find a career backup catcher.
As mentioned in another thread, I don't think Hammock can really catch with any regularity because of his knee.
Going by the pitching analysis article you linked to yesterday in the ML area, and using the lazy-mans pitcher measure <xFIP>, Bonderman was the 6th best of all qualified pitchers last year <guess who was #1>.
According to the Detroit News The Tigers are looking for a catching prospect to replace Pudge after 2007, they are likely to trade a starter, most likely Bonderman.
You believe ANYTHING that comes out of Detroit? When was the last you wanted anything that came out of Detroit, you Lexus driving shoewiz?
Anyhow, just for kicks, from prosportsdaily.com:
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/mlb/mlbrumors.html
Quote:
Tigers will seek new players aggressively
October 28
Detroit News: "Alfonso Soriano, Carlos Lee, Cliff Floyd and David Dellucci are among the more interesting players who might draw Detroit's interest. As for Barry Bonds, the Tigers will steer clear of the man chasing Henry Aaron's all-time home-run record, no matter if Leyland and Bonds got together for dinner in San Francisco earlier this month... The Tigers are almost certain to trade some of their pitching largesse, an effort that could begin with Detroit entertaining offers for right-hander Jeremy Bonderman."
...
Bonderman's steady postseason solidifies his spot with Tigers
October 28
Detroit News: "More than ever, despite the assorted reasons not to -- such as the third pitch he needs and the leads he blew this season -- it's easier to envision Bonderman staying with the Tigers instead of being traded for the additional hitter they'd like to have for the middle of their lineup."
...
Bonderman proves his worth down the stretch and in postseason
October 28
Michigan Live (registration required): "When the regular season ended on Oct. 1, with Bonderman failing to hold a 6-0 lead for the second time in six weeks, it seemed logical that Bonderman could be dealt. Now, after a postseason in which he's been second only to the amazing Kenny Rogers among Tiger starters, that seems much harder to imagine."
Seems like the writers in Detroit can't get their shit together...
I said a while back that I don't see the Tigers trading Bonderman, and I still think that he stays. And even if he goes, it won't be to AZ...
And, would you give up 6 years of Montero for 2 years of Bonderman?
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Joe Girardi is ten feet tall,
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And I don't think the Tigers would trade Bonderman for a prospect like Montero, even if we here like Montero. They'd want someone really good... and they might get him.
I won't be shocked to see a mega deal that will involve Bonderman and others going to Texas for Teixeira and others. Mark it down.
_________________
Old school Hollywood baseball,
Joe Girardi is ten feet tall,
Old school Hollywood baseball,
Me and Frenchy walk a ton.
I don't think the tigers would do Bonderman for Montero straight up, 1 for 1. In fact, I'm sure they wouldn't.
It would take additional pieces. I would have no problem at all if Eric Byrnes were that additional piece.
I think Estrada would be traded regardless....there is no way they keep him here. They would have to go with Snyder as the starter, and go find a career backup catcher.
As mentioned in another thread, I don't think Hammock can really catch with any regularity because of his knee.
When I said "Straight up" I didn't actually mean straight up... That was just how it came out on paper. I just think that both Montero (one of our top prospects, and one of the best catching prospects in the nation) AND Byrnes are too much to give up. In a sence, you are giving up the leader in HRs and SBs, and possible the catcher for years to come. Although to get good pitching you do have to overpay, even if it isn't of the free agent variety.
I also doubt they would trade Byrnes, as fans already have enough reason to hate the FO (not resigning CC or Gonzo, Changing colors/logos, ect) that trading another 'fan-favorite' may be the last straw for some people. We might be better off with Hariston in LF, but baseball is also a business, and sometimes, that means doing what will make money, and not what is best for the team.
And that was my point with Hammock, He would be the on'y person who would be able to backup Snyder, and we would have to sign someone else. I would like to see Hammock catch a few games though.
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 3242
Location: In front of my computer
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:50 am Post subject:
Quote:
You believe ANYTHING that comes out of Detroit? When was the last you wanted anything that came out of Detroit, you Lexus driving shoewiz?
Hey, I drive a Ford!! LOL
Yeah, I just went back and was looking at those other Bonderman articles after I had posted this first one...and was gonna come back and post those as well. Thanks for slapping me down once again though.
You are right it probably takes a blockbuster type deal to pry Bonderman loose. But as for the 6 years of Montero vs. 2 years of Bonderman....well.....maybe. We don't know for sure how good Montero will be. We already know how good Bonderman is. That evens things up a bit. And with Bonderman in the house, the D Backs would be a reasonable bet to make the playoffs in 2007. Don't underestimate the value of making the playoffs one year "early" before the supposed run starts in 2008.
And of course they could work on a multi year deal instead of going to Arbitration. Would you give Bonderman 4 years, 32 million, with an option on the 5th year at 10 million, right now? I would
One other plus on Shoe's proposal <using Byrnes> is that we'd still have close to 10MM in the salary coffer's to go after another pitcher <maybe Padilla>.
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
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Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:55 am Post subject:
I'd totally trade Montero and Byrnes for Bonderman. Snyder is a good enough catcher and we have him for 4 more years. Estrada can still be traded and PV backup catchers are a dime a dozen
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 660
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 12:22 pm Post subject:
Boy, I'd hate to give up Montero, though. If that's the going rate for a Bonderman-type starter, then that's the going rate. I'm a Jackson fan and I think I'd rather do Byrnes/Jackson than Byrnes/Montero for a starter.
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Oden
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I'd totally trade Montero and Byrnes for Bonderman. Snyder is a good enough catcher and we have him for 4 more years. Estrada can still be traded and PV backup catchers are a dime a dozen
Now, I wasn't saying I wouldn't trade Montero for Bonderman. I was saying that, should Montero really be as good as advertised, having him for 6 years (his cheapest 6 years ever) might be more worthwhile than having Bonderman for 2 years (his most expensive pre-free agency years). A lot of times you end up looking like the Red Sox in the Beckett deal and the White Sox in the Vazquez deal... where the youngsters you give up are worth a lot more than the PV you get back...
Since I doubt that the Tigers would really trade Bonderman for a catcher, and since Byrnes doesn't scream "middle of the order" bat, we can safely put all o of this speculation to rest
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Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 12:30 pm Post subject:
detroit is weak at C (in the future), 1b (now), and obp -- what about montero + jackson for bonderman (with a window to talk extension)? i know it's a lot, but that might pry him loose from detroit... and the pitching market just keeps getting weirder and weirder, we're going to have to overpay somehow eventually.
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Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 660
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 12:54 pm Post subject:
I speculate that Lev will speculate on something on this board some time within the next 2 weeks.
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Anal Mod Squad
I speculate that Lev will speculate on something on this board some time within the next 2 weeks.
I speculate that your speculation may be worth speculating.
Shoewiz, you can speculate, sure. But shouldn't we at least wait until we hear that there's someone the front office is targeting?
When I hear someone in the mainstream media mention AZ's interest in Bone-them-man, I'll be the first to start speculating.
Quote:
detroit is weak at C (in the future), 1b (now), and obp -- what about montero + jackson for bonderman
Why are we still letting this Tiger fan on our board?!
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Old school Hollywood baseball,
Joe Girardi is ten feet tall,
Old school Hollywood baseball,
Me and Frenchy walk a ton.
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 3242
Location: In front of my computer
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 1:31 pm Post subject:
The truth is we will never know who Byrnes is actually interested in trading for until he does it....when he is really after someone, they are a pretty tightlipped bunch over there at Chase Field.
When the papers mention that Byrnes is interested in this guy or that guy, it never happens.....it's always misinformation and misdirect. They just don't leak who they really want.
Did we have ANY idea that Glaus would go to Toronto for Hudson and Batista? Nope
Oscar and Cormeir for Estrada?
Nope, not a clue either
Ok...Green to the Mets was long rumoured...but that was different...it was not about "targeting" a player.
And I don't think we had any advance warning on the Livan trade either.
So we may as well speculate and have fun and make shit up until we have an actual trade to disect.
In the mean time, we may actually stumble upon a real possibility sometimes....and information presented here just might be of some help or some use...you never know.
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
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Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 1:47 pm Post subject:
the levinator wrote:
Why are we still letting this Tiger fan on our board?! Wink
okay, losing montero's dirt cheap production plus jackson's pretty cheap production hurts, but if we gain very much above avg pitching, and we get that pitching for 4, 5 years (assuming we demand an extension window before giving up that much talent), then aren't we close to breaking even?
i love the prospects too, and i'm starting to understand the values of players better, but losing those two for a second dominant starter might be close to fair. it gets us to the postseason, most likely, right?
i guess i can't shake this fear that we're about to be the texas rangers -- great hitting cheap kid prospects, but no pitching. and without pitching, we aren't going anywhere.
do you see a better option coming on the FA market? because there's been speculation that az wouldn't even be allowed to sit at the big boy's table for negotiations -- we'd be priced right out of it all before it started. besides, byrnes thinks the FA market is fool's gold. so eventually, we're going to have to part with prospects for our pitching.
and the price of pitching is just going to go up and up every year. why not get in as soon as we can?
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Hank, you're dead to me.
so, mccray, would you give up montero and jackson to have bonderman for $44m over the next 4 years?
[edit]
to elaborate:
the red sox gave up hanley ramirez and anibal sanchez for beckett--then paid him over $10m year to forego two years of free agency.
bonderman is healthier, younger and arguably the better pitcher. you'll want him to give up at least two years of free agency, you'll have to pony up just as much as the red sox did, arguably more.
so the question is, if you are going to spend $10-12M/year for a pitcher, why waste two prime prospects like jackson and montero to acquire him in the first place?
I'd rather give up B prospects and take a shot at Tim Hudson.
[second edit]
or i'd see what you have to give up for freddy garcia. he'd come a lot cheaper than bonderman, and the sox will be motivated to trade him.
and what to the sox need? a centerfielder, you say?
put eric in, coach, he's ready to play...
[final edit, i promise]
from mlbtraderumors.com
Quote:
With the Tigers' season over, the consensus among local papers seems to be that they will trade some of their excess starting pitching for a slugger, possibly a first baseman. Some folks think Jeremy Bonderman's postseason performance (3.10 ERA in 20 innings) was a sign that he will take it to the next level in '07. Others think it's time to trade him with his value so high. Possible trade targets: Mark Teixeira, Todd Helton, Richie Sexson, Adam Dunn, Manny Ramirez, and Pat Burrell. It's certainly feasible that Brandon Inge, Nate Robertson, or Craig Monroe could be included in a trade.
i think the tigers are in "reload", not "rebuild" phase
Joined: 13 Aug 2006
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Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 2:46 pm Post subject:
Montero is untouchable. This day and age, its almost imperative you have a bi-lingual receiver, as well. He's another one, that doesn't come around very often for a variety of reasons. The best caught game all year for us, was the Edgar v Anibal game.
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