Diamondbacks Bullpen

DesertKnight · Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:45 pm Post subject: Evaluating Coaching Staff

It's no secret that our pitching hasn't been stellar this year, especially in the first inning. So here's my question: how do we--who aren't privy to the conversations between Price and the pitchers--evaluate the job Price has done? My gut tells me he isn't effective, but I don't have a metric for coaches.

foulpole · Veteran Presence Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 1357

Check out the "webb's mechanics, redux" thread.

Who gets credit for that???

shoewizard · Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:43 pm Post subject:

I think most of that was already in place during 2005, but I could be wrong about that.

McCray · Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:07 pm Post subject:

shoe's right. aside from minor tweaks, webb06 is webb05. the only real significant change i can think of is his hand movements right before and right after delivery.
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McCray · Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:09 pm Post subject:

fuck, i forgot to address the actual question of this thread. i think price has done above average work. i have no real evidence to support it aside from this -- our pitching staff is full of sucky sucky pitchers, yet most of them had avg to above avg years. even avg is a stretch, considering we went into this season with talk about how this year could be a historically bad rotation/pen. avg is a long way up from there.
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Hank, you're dead to me.

foulpole · Veteran Presence Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 1357

shoewizard · Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:19 pm Post subject:

McCray · Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:37 pm Post subject:

i second shoe: it's webb's credit. i mean, i suppose a great pitching coach could have helped him adjust his hand angles, but that's the kind of minutia that usually the pitchers tweak themselves.
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Hank, you're dead to me.

foulpole · Veteran Presence Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 1357

Ok...so when a pitcher does well it's because he made adjustments and when he sucks it's because he didn't.

Right???

McCray · Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 9:16 pm Post subject:

sort of. my personal view is that when a pitcher makes drastic changes to their delivery (see oliver perez, pirates, to oliver perez, mets) it's usually coaching. when they make tiny little tweaks, it's usually the pitchers themselves.

check out this link:

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/mechanics/discussion/brandon_webb_hook_change_sinker/

he changes very little from 04 to 06. if anything, i'd say he's been undoing a lot of his coaching. CBW says in that thread that his 04 delivery looks like he's thinking to himself: stay closed, stay closed, stay closed.

in 06, he's more relaxed and fluid, and the compactness and closure comes more naturally. he just had to get used to it and get less freaked out, IMO.

big, huge changes in delivery are almost always coaching. a pitcher throws the way they naturally throw -- nobody's "natural" way of throwing changes over a couple years. if their delivery changes in a huge way, that's gotta be the coach.

the tiny things, i think those are mostly the pitchers figuring out what works best for their body for 35 starts a year.
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Hank, you're dead to me.

foulpole · Veteran Presence Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 1357

I saw levski's post. that was really cool.

I would suggest that many "habits" that young players have may have started in Little League, Jr. High, HS or college.

Webby may have had a problem opening up too early years ago and some coach got him into the chin to shoulder thing ( et. al. ) a little to much. Once he got into pro ball and climbed the ladder the coaching got better and "undid" his over compensation.

Just a thought.

TAP · Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:24 am Post subject: