Diamondbacks Bullpen

The Goat · Draft Pick Joined: 11 Aug 2006 Posts: 4

Well right now I am currently arguing with a guy who is saying that Liriano and Santana would have been as dominant if not more dominant for the Twins then RJ and Schilling for us in 2001. Am I just being a homer on this topic or do I have a legitimate reason to point out his idiocy? Very Happy

levski · Veteran Presence Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 1763

Well, Liriano is done for this year, and arguably for next year as well, as he most likely will need a TJ surgery after blowing out his elbow...

So, you can buy your friend a card that sez "I'm sorry..."

Oh, and count the ringzzzz. Wink

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Old school Hollywood baseball,
Joe Girardi is ten feet tall,
Old school Hollywood baseball,
Me and Frenchy walk a ton.

And Tony Pena cuts in line...

shoewizard · Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:46 pm Post subject:

He has an arguement with Santana be as good as either RJ or Schilling, but not Liriano because he does not have the track record and durability.

There is what might have been, and there is what was and is.

RJ and Schilling ACHIEVED a two years level of dominance as a 1-2 punch that is as good or better than any that ever played the game.

Santana and Liriano only reached that level for two months, and then Liriano got hurt.

foulpole · Veteran Presence Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 1358

You gotta love those Twins but Liriano is...

http://www.co.mohave.az.us/WIC/images/toast.gif

levski · Veteran Presence Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 1763

What Shoewiz said. In 2001, Curt and RJ gave AZ 500+ innings of around 2.75 ERA, or 170 ERA+. As a whole, the Dbacks pitched just under 1,500 innings with a team ERA of 3.87, or 118 ERA+.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/ARI/2001.shtml

In 2006, Santana and Liriano combined ERA would be around 2.50, which is exceptional, but they have combined for just around 330 innings. In terms of sheer "pitch by pitch" dominance, one can argue the two pairs of pitchers were comparable, and maybe Santana/Liriano were slightly better, especially if you take into account the tougher league (AL).

But RJ and Curt would've pitched another 150 innings of dominant baseball over what Santana and Liriano would finish with this year. That is worth a lot, and makes RJ+Curt more valuable...

Of course, if you want to look at contracts, future, age, blah blah blah, it's a different story. Even though who knows what Liriano's future will be now.
_________________
Old school Hollywood baseball,
Joe Girardi is ten feet tall,
Old school Hollywood baseball,
Me and Frenchy walk a ton.

And Tony Pena cuts in line...

TAP · Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:05 pm Post subject:

foulpole · Veteran Presence Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 1358

So does this mean that Gardie is a manager that burns out his pitchers or is it just a part of baseball???

levski · Veteran Presence Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 1763

The Twins were dumb dumb dumb to bring Liriano back again this season...
_________________
Old school Hollywood baseball,
Joe Girardi is ten feet tall,
Old school Hollywood baseball,
Me and Frenchy walk a ton.

And Tony Pena cuts in line...

TAP · Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:11 pm Post subject:

foulpole · Veteran Presence Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 1358

B. O. N. D. · Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:29 am Post subject:

At least you guys are spelling Liriano's name right now.... Rolling Eyes

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Oops in the 2 hole!

tmar · Veteran Presence Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 1184

Didn't RJ beat up on the Twins in that movie where some kid inherits the team?

EvilJuan · Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:10 am Post subject:

Counsell · MLB Rookie Joined: 28 Aug 2006 Posts: 220

Let's look at the question again:

"Well right now I am currently arguing with a guy who is saying that Liriano and Santana would have been as dominant if not more dominant for the Twins then RJ and Schilling for us in 2001."

So the qustion is would they have done it IF Liriano would not have been hurt. He didn't ask ARE they as dominant, or WERE they as dominant. It called for conjecture. That was a given.

Hard to say, based upon two months, but I think the logical answer is "yes" or at least "probably yes." Just checks the stats.

But we'll never know. Too bad.

Counsell · MLB Rookie Joined: 28 Aug 2006 Posts: 220

Turn out he may be out only for the year and may not need TJ surgery.

http://www.startribune.com/509/story/676959.html

McCray · Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:39 pm Post subject:

thank god, that poor kid. he really dodged a bullet. everything i'd read said he heard a pop and felt incredible pain in his elbow. i figured it was TJ for sure.
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Hank, you're dead to me.

Oden · Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:12 pm Post subject:

Thank. God. <crack beer>