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foulpole
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 Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:51 pm Post subject: D-Backs' all-time wash-outs |
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Not all prospects will make a big splash in the bigs.
Below is a list ( I'm sure that it is not all inclusive ) of "top prospects" that have gone through the D-Backs org and not lived up to the hype. The #'s are their ranking on the BA top 100 list followed by the year of that ranking.
C Koyie Hill
1B Travis Lee #5 1997 #8 1998
1B Lyle Overbay #63 2003
3B Donnie Sadler ( brief stay with AZ ) #51 1997, #28 1996
SS Alex Cintron #62 2001,
SS Sergio Santos #37 2002, #61 2005
OF Karim Garcia #77 1998, #20 1997, #7 1996, #98 1995
OF Jack Cust #31 2000, #38 2001 #100 2002
OF Abraham Nunez #30 2000, #75 2001
OF Luis Terrero #1 ( team ) 2002
P Vladimir Nunez #76 1997
P Mike Gosling #59 2003 |
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Espo
MLB Rookie
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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How about Corey Myers?
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diamondbacker
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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Well, Overbay is a good big-leaguer, but they did hype him quite a bit to be a superstar. To think, we picked Corey Myers when Barry Zito was still available. How good would RJ, Schill, Zito, and Webb been?
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levski
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Overbay? Are you kidding me? |
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foulpole
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| levski wrote: |
| Overbay? Are you kidding me? |
In what areas does he excel?
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TAP
Hall of Famer
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 2540
Location: Gold Canyon
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| levski wrote: |
| Overbay? Are you kidding me? |
Career .839 OPS and .880 in 2006. Not bad for a washout.
For some perspective, this would have made Lyle the best hitter on the Diamondbacks roster in 2006 were he still in AZ.
Last edited by TAP on Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Espo
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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Heres a good one, Josh Kroeger.
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levski
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| foulpole wrote: |
| levski wrote: |
| Overbay? Are you kidding me? |
In what areas does he excel?
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Dude, there's a schism, nay, an ocean, between excelling and being a washout. Since given a full time starting gig with the Brewers, Overbay has posted OPS+ of around 120. That doesn't make him a superstar but it certainly doesn't make him a washout.
If you still don't see the difference, may I suggest some help?
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David B
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Please continue to send any and all Overbay-caliber "wash outs" to Milwaukee. |
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foulpole
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Where does Overdue excel? what justifies a top prospect tag? |
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shoewizard
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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Foulpole....sometimes you are full of shit.
If you think Overbay is a washout, if you really really think he is a washout......well...you just don't understand this game as well as you think you do. or you don't understand the English language, and what the definition of a washout is.
And this "shifting gears" from "washout" to "excelling", again, this is bullshit.
ZERO intellectual honesty.
As far as the rest of your list....hey, if you can't tell the difference between Luis Terrero and Chris Young, thats your shortcoming, not ours.
It's obvious what you are trying to do...but it won't work.
You don't like young players...we get it. Move on. |
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TAP
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Location: Gold Canyon
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| foulpole wrote: |
| Where does Overdue excel? what justifies a top prospect tag? |
Wash-out
–noun
An utter failure
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Where does Overbay excel? As noted just 4 posts above your question:
Career .839 OPS and .880 in 2006. Not bad for a washout.
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foulpole
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| shoewizard wrote: |
| You don't like young players...we get it. Move on. |
Not at all. I don't like "young players" simply because they are "young players." All players have to produce. The minors are the minors and the majors are the majors.
I'm high on Wolf, Q, Webby, Tracy, Julio, Medders, Lyon, Pena, 'rique and feel very good about Young's D and if he comes anywhere close to "projections" on O then he'll have a potential all-star career.
But if you can trade some "league average" guys for a real producer and keep the few "young players" that will really get it done in the bigs, you can fill in all the holes with trades or FA's.
You don't need a totally home grown line up to bring home the trophy.
http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/whats_new/press_releases/images/ws_trophy_1998.jpg
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David B
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd define washout as a player with little or no value to their own team or any other. After two years in Milwaukee, the Brewers managed to parlay O-Bay into a solid starting pitcher (Bush), a top 10 pitching prospect (Jackson) and a seviceable platoon outfielder (Gross). In turn, the Blue Jays were so pleased with their end of the deal that they signed Overbay to a 4-year, $24 million extension. |
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David B
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| foulpole wrote: |
| But if you can trade some "league average" guys for a real producer and keep the few "young players" that will really get it done in the bigs, you can fill in all the holes with trades or FA's. |
Oh, you mean like Overbay and Capuano for Sexson
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shoewizard
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| David B wrote: |
| foulpole wrote: |
| But if you can trade some "league average" guys for a real producer and keep the few "young players" that will really get it done in the bigs, you can fill in all the holes with trades or FA's. |
Oh, you mean like Overbay and Capuano for Sexson
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thankyou David, for ending right here and now the stupidest arguement ever.
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foulpole
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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WHERE DOES OVERBAY EXCEL??? What made/makes him a "top prospect."
Anyone...anyone...
http://www.80s.com/saveferris/images/class/teacher1.jpg
He's been a trade chip forever. |
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whatuwant
MLB Rookie
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 231
Location: Phoenix
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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Jason Conti...may be wrong on the first name, but the guy we traded to get albie lopez and mike difelice
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foulpole
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| David B wrote: |
| In turn, the Blue Jays were so pleased with their end of the deal that they signed Overbay to a 4-year, $24 million extension. |
If you were a GM, would you make that offer to him right now?
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David B
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Location: Portland
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, JP Ricciardi is a pretty sharp GM, and he made that offer to Overbay (or at least it was accepted) on January 14, 2007. I don't think his (or my) opinion of Overbay has changed in a month. |
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David B
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Location: Portland
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| foulpole wrote: |
| Where does Overdue excel? what justifies a top prospect tag? |
Oh, by the way...
Overbay, whose 133 doubles since 2004 are the most in the Major Leagues, was a force at the Rogers Centre, hitting .325 and belting 17 of his homers at home. He also provided steady defence at first base.
Just my opinion, but any player that leads all major leaguers in a key offensive category over a three year period probably can't be called a washout.
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foulpole
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Posts: 1380
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:08 am Post subject: |
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| levski wrote: |
| foulpole wrote: |
| levski wrote: |
| Overbay? Are you kidding me? |
In what areas does he excel?
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Dude, there's a schism, nay, an ocean, between excelling and being a washout. Since given a full time starting gig with the Brewers, Overbay has posted OPS+ of around 120. That doesn't make him a superstar but it certainly doesn't make him a washout.
If you still don't see the difference, may I suggest some help?
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Did/does he live up to your expectations/projections or the "experts"? Is/was he ever an elite player? Should we check our expectations regarding "top prospects?"
Is he just an...
http://i.afterdawn.com/albums/Joe_Walsh_OAG.jpg
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levski
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:42 am Post subject: |
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foulpole,
Just so I'm being fair to you, I'll let you know this:
Talking to you about ANYTHING is a total waste of my time.
Therefore, from now on, I'll IGNORE anything you post. |
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matt
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| Dude if you think that top prospect translates to star player you are way off. I'd even almost back off on calling Cintron a complete washout. The White Sox gave him 1.9M for 2007. Being able to stick around long enough to collect 4 years ST is not terrible. |
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Aaron
MLB Rookie
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 130
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| matt wrote: |
| Dude if you think that top prospect translates to star player you are way off. I'd even almost back off on calling Cintron a complete washout. The White Sox gave him 1.9M for 2007. Being able to stick around long enough to collect 4 years ST is not terrible. |
Agreed. It's not like Cintron was ever regarded as one of the best prospects in the game or was a 1st round pick. BA made him our top prospect one year but we didn't exactly have a good system back then.
I read somewhere that every draft has about 6 all-star type players (say, 5-6 career All-Star appearances min). Just a little perspective.
As for Overbay, it's not like he was overyly hyped. I remember at his prospect height he was regarded in the 50-70 range of prospect. In that context I'd say he's fully exceeded expectations.
(Just looked it up, he was #65 on BA's 2003 list and didn't rank any other year).
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