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levski
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 Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:18 pm Post subject: 3B trade rumors |
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per rosenthal
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he Diamondbacks considered acquiring Astros third baseman Morgan Ensberg and trading Chad Tracy to the Pirates for left-handed reliever Mike Gonzalez. But, like virtually every other team interested in Gonzalez, they wanted the Pirates to include a second player in the deal.
The Astros still could trade Ensberg and use a platoon of Mike Lamb and Mark Loretta at third. Such a move, however, could leave them vulnerable at third base and center field — two difficult positions to fill — for 2008.
Lamb is a free agent at the end of next season, as is second baseman Craig Biggio. Chris Burke, the leading candidate to replace Willy Taveras in center, likely will move to second after Biggio retires. |
What's great is that above the caption:
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| The Diamondbacks have contemplated trading Chad Tracy. (Rich Pilling / Getty Images) |
They show off Tracy's brand new platinum blond hair
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pedrini
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Joined: 03 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:56 am Post subject: |
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Player TEAM POS G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG
1. C Tracy ARI 3B 154 597 91 168 41 0 20 80 269 54 129 5 1 .343 .451 .281
2. M Ensberg HOU 3B 127 387 67 91 17 1 23 58 179 101 96 1 4 .396 .463 .235
well, ensberg was injured last season so i think that he didn´t hit well but even if he played all last season he would strikeout more times than 96 but less then tracy´s 129.
ensberg made 12 errors this past season and 15 in ´05. i think that they shouldn´t trade for him, we have a lot of youngsters waiting the call, but you can trade tracy and another guy for mike gonzalez, but i see that very... far. |
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McCray
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:20 am Post subject: |
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is this really how low tracy's value is? a reliever? ugh. i'd hang onto him. even if he has a dead cat bounce next year, his value rises. i don't know if it'll get much lower than this.
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Dre
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Joined: 05 Jan 2007
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Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:44 am Post subject: |
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I'm definitely not ready to give up on Tracy, especially to downgrade to a guy like Ensberg.
While we may never see the Tracy from 2005 2nd half, I don't think he'll be as "bad" as he was this past season. I think last season was more of an adjustment to the expectation of being "the guy" in the lineup. With some of the younger guys having a little more experience, I think Tracy should feel less of a strain to be the #1 producer.
He also had to swing back to 3B after playing a full season elsewhere. I'm sure his offensive woes led to a little of his difficulty in the field. |
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shoewizard
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:18 am Post subject: |
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Ensberg is by far a better defender than Tracy. Every metric you can think of probably has him better.
Chris Dial has him ranked 3rd behind Rolen and Feliz.
Link
And he is just generally known as a pretty good glove.
He has a much better on base percentage and a better slugging percentage. From a pure production standpoint, Ensberg is better than Tracy. He walks more, and has better power.
But he will be 31 next year, had shoulder problems this past season, is a free agent after 2008, and will make at least 12 million the next two seasons.
Moving out Tracy for a reliever, even a dominant one like Gonzalez, and bringing in a guy like Ensberg is a WIN NOW move all the way. |
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FatLeprechaun
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Joined: 25 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:10 am Post subject: Re: 3B trade rumors |
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| Quote: |
he Diamondbacks considered acquiring Astros third baseman Morgan Ensberg and trading Chad Tracy to the Pirates for left-handed reliever Mike Gonzalez. But, like virtually every other team interested in Gonzalez, they wanted the Pirates to include a second player in the deal.
The Astros still could trade Ensberg and use a platoon of Mike Lamb and Mark Loretta at third. Such a move, however, could leave them vulnerable at third base and center field — two difficult positions to fill — for 2008.
Lamb is a free agent at the end of next season, as is second baseman Craig Biggio. Chris Burke, the leading candidate to replace Willy Taveras in center, likely will move to second after Biggio retires. |
Who would we have to give up for Ensberg? Like the poster above, I would definitely consider Ensberg an upgrade over Tracy (both offensively and defensively), but Tracy's stock is so low I would rather trade him after a decent 2007 season.
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shoewizard
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| I am sure that Houston asked for top prospects in return for Ensberg. They have no reason to move him for b grade prospects...not this year, not with two years of control left and relatively cheap contract for his production. |
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levski
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| shoewizard wrote: |
| I am sure that Houston asked for top prospects in return for Ensberg. They have no reason to move him for b grade prospects...not this year, not with two years of control left and relatively cheap contract for his production. |
I am not so sure, however. My guess is the Astros asked for pitchers, guys like Owings, Nippert, Enrique...
And you'd be shocked at how little the Astros value Morgan Ensberg. They almost non-tendered him...
The Astros are not a smartly run organization, to put it mildly...
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levski
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| shoewizard wrote: |
Ensberg is by far a better defender than Tracy. Every metric you can think of probably has him better.
Chris Dial has him ranked 3rd behind Rolen and Feliz.
Link
And he is just generally known as a pretty good glove.
He has a much better on base percentage and a better slugging percentage. From a pure production standpoint, Ensberg is better than Tracy. He walks more, and has better power.
But he will be 31 next year, had shoulder problems this past season, is a free agent after 2008, and will make at least 12 million the next two seasons.
Moving out Tracy for a reliever, even a dominant one like Gonzalez, and bringing in a guy like Ensberg is a WIN NOW move all the way. |
Pluses:
Morgan is a superior defender and better hitter. His trade value is pretty low right now. He could be signed to a three year deal relatively cheaply.
Minuses:
He's on the wrong side of 30. Moving Tracy to acquire him makes our lineup even more "right handed". Tracy's value isn't that high right now.
At this point, I think it's more likely AZ holds onto Chad... unless the Buccos make an offer you can't refuse
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shoewizard
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| levski wrote: |
| shoewizard wrote: |
| I am sure that Houston asked for top prospects in return for Ensberg. They have no reason to move him for b grade prospects...not this year, not with two years of control left and relatively cheap contract for his production. |
I am not so sure, however. My guess is the Astros asked for pitchers, guys like Owings, Nippert, Enrique...
And you'd be shocked at how little the Astros value Morgan Ensberg. They almost non-tendered him...
The Astros are not a smartly run organization, to put it mildly...
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I defer to you Swami.....your sense of market value and how teams value their own players is more finely tuned than mine.
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stu
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:14 am Post subject: |
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is this really how low tracy's value is? a reliever?
Gonzalez is very very good. A cloer. The Pirates were offered Adam LaRoche for Gonzlaez and Duffy. The story I heard is that the Pirates GM took so long making up his mind and shopping the offer, that the Braves took it off the table. |
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matt
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| His career ERA+ is 182 and he has a 10.58 K/9. AND he's a lefty with three more years of control. |
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tmar
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:50 am Post subject: |
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I have no problem with a limited "Win Now" attitude. This solution would work for both 07 & 08 and I don't think we'd end up giving up anything that was going to insure us as WS contenders after that.
Improving 3B Defense & adding a solid closer would really make this team a contender. |
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EvilJuan
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:57 am Post subject: |
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So, would you trade Tracy for Gonzalez, straight up?
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levski
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| EvilJuan wrote: |
| So, would you trade Tracy for Gonzalez, straight up? |
no.
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tmar
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:09 am Post subject: |
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Levski likely wouldn't do this deal, but how about Tracy/Enrique for Gonzalez/Maholm.
I know Maholm has some control issues but he comes up with a ton of ground balls <53% last year>. That and he's cheap and under control for a while. |
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rgndvo
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:17 am Post subject: |
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Id like to hold onto enrique but I think Im his lone fan.
I wouldnt mind ditching tracy but only if his value were higher. I think hes better than his value right now. Personally, I think we have too many IF players right now so if drew could move to 3B, the team would be better off in the field with a drop in offense. I wouldnt give up a ton for ensberg though. |
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levski
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| tmar wrote: |
Levski likely wouldn't do this deal, but how about Tracy/Enrique for Gonzalez/Maholm.
I know Maholm has some control issues but he comes up with a ton of ground balls <53% last year>. That and he's cheap and under control for a while. |
I really have no interest in Maholm...
Not that I think Enrique is all that.
The Pirates are a bad match for a trade
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shoewizard
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| rgndvo wrote: |
Id like to hold onto enrique but I think Im his lone fan.
I wouldnt mind ditching tracy but only if his value were higher. I think hes better than his value right now. Personally, I think we have too many IF players right now so if drew could move to 3B, the team would be better off in the field with a drop in offense. I wouldnt give up a ton for ensberg though. |
I think Enriques stuff is better than his peripherals would indicate. He had a good enough stretch last year to deserve another shot.
But he still has options and Edgar doesn't. I don't see one being so much better than the other that the team should waste Edgar by trading him for little or nothing while he has so little trade value. I think a year of Edgar in the number 5 spot in the rotation is likely to help more than hurt his trade value. If Enrique does well in Tucson, or out of the pen, depending how things shake out, he will get another shot in 2008.
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Tucson DBacks Fan
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Joined: 13 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| I am hoping Eveland ends up being really good and can find a spot as a starter or , maybe better, as a reliever on the active squad. Another effective left handed relief pitcher would be nice. |
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B. O. N. D.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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Morgan Ensberg-3B- Astros Jan. 11 - 1:30 am et
The Diamondbacks likely would have tried to get Morgan Ensberg from the Astros had they traded Chad Tracy to the Pirates for Mike Gonzalez.
That deal didn't work out, but the Diamondbacks still could seek Ensberg if the right offer for Tracy comes along. The team would very be upgrading at third base while almost certainly sacrificing less in a trade than it would receive back for Tracy. While Ensberg remains a candidate to start at third base for the Astros, he's very much available.
Source: FOXSports.com |
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matt
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| The more I think of it the more I want them to find a way to make it happen. |
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tmar
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| My guess is that we'd find considerable interest in Tracy if we were actively shopping him. He's relatively cheap and under our control for 4 more years. |
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levski
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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hey BOND, nice signature 
tmar, that's why the Dbacks didn't jump on the Tracy for Gonzalez trade. even though, as stu pointed out, Gonzalez is a pretty valuable commodity |
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dirtygary
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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The only reason to trade Tracy is if we've lost confidence in his abilities to play D and hit lefties. And if that's the case, other teams will smell it and not give us anything. Our best bet is to give him another year to hopefully up his production at the plate and trim a couple errors off the season total.
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