Diamondbacks Bullpen

[JoshByrnesWhenIPee]

Did anyone notice that the top banner on the Diamondbacks website has replaced Quentin with Young?

http://arizona.diamondbacks.mlb.com/index.jsp?c_id=ari
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcGqFbR89QY

[TAP]

And Drew's looking over his banner shoulder at Upton.
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Arizona Diamondbacks
- 2007 National League West Champions
- 2007 NLDS Winners
- 2008 World Champions

[nanc102179]

Why are you surprised since Quentin has replaced Hairston in the dog house?

[YBC-Dog]

ROFL. Some people said something, but I didn't think they would change it out mid-season.

That is just sad...poor Q.

At least they can never take away my Carlos Quentin bobblehead.

[EvilJuan]

[allstar]

Young deserves to be on there.
After all, that's where our 'face of the franchise' guys go on.
Though, I feel bad for Q.
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Life is fantastic when you're me. lol.
Studying hard to become the GM of the Diamondbacks. Good luck to me.

[Dangerfield]

Its good for Quentin, for moving on purposes and not stringing him along. Hopefully they don't bring him up, in September, and rub more salt in the wound. He'll have a good career in this league. Gm's want their own players.
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My wife is always trying to get rid of me. The other day she told me to put the garbage out. I said to her I already did. She told me to go and keep an eye on it...and kurkjian is a jinx

[allstar]

[Dangerfield]

amazing how much more gas-lighting behavior is going on within the organization, but Q's a pretty borrego, and doesn't deserve the kind of politics that's being done to him. Moorad one day talking about how, he's still part of the team then the next his picture's gone. Nice guy's.

[shoewizard]

[Dangerfield]

[shoewizard]

Well...somebody in Marketing probably saw that he was there and Young wasn't, and Carlos isn't even on the major league roster.....

I mean the damage was done the moment Byrnes was signed as far as Carlos' future here....the rest isn't really all that meaningful.

It's actually embarrassing for the team to have the picture of the guy hitting .209 they sent back down to the minors sitting there on your home page.

[Dangerfield]

well give Young a couple weeks and he'll be at 209 with him.
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My wife is always trying to get rid of me. The other day she told me to put the garbage out. I said to her I already did. She told me to go and keep an eye on it...and kurkjian is a jinx

[shoewizard]

[Dangerfield]

I hope he shuts it down, personally, not that, its a that'll show'em, its just that whether you think its Byrnes that caused the trouble or not, he's not here right now, Upton is, Salazar is. Water under the bridge, but I suppose 209 did seal his case here according to youm and is an embarrassment to the future, and I'm not going to get involved with the rhetoric.
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My wife is always trying to get rid of me. The other day she told me to put the garbage out. I said to her I already did. She told me to go and keep an eye on it...and kurkjian is a jinx

[levski]

Carlos Quentin had his 25th birthday yesterday. I hope it was a good one, Q.

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Food for thought:

Age of AZ's outfielders on the 40 man roster, at opening day 2008

http://arizona.diamondbacks.mlb.com/team/roster_40man.jsp?c_id=ari

Byrnes, 32
Salazar, 27
Quentin, 25
Romero, 24
Young, 24
Gonzalez, 22
Upton, 20


Salazar and Romero profile as 4th outfielders, and there's nothing wrong with that. Both should be cheap AND good in that role.

The big problem is that we have 5 starting OFers for 3 spots. Of those 5, Young is the pure centerfielder, and Upton is the future in RF. It's really a no brainer that the two of them will play there in 08.

That leaves 3 outfielders for 1 job, and that job was given to EByrnes. The question becomes, of the three players vying for that last starting job, which one is the best bet for the next 3 years?

If we assume that CarGo won't be ready for full time job here for another year, the choice really comes down to Byrnes vs. Quentin. And that was the choice that the front office + owners already made. It's over.

I'm not sure if Danger is intentionally obtuse or just plain out of it, but if Q got screwed, he got screwed in favor of Danger's lover, EByrnes. It's that simple. You wanna bitch about it, send an email to EByrnes & Moorad.

If you think that Q should be playing instead of Young next year, make your case. If you think Q should be playing instead of Upton next year, make your case. Maybe you think that Q should be playing instead of Salazar next year--but I'll disagree with that. Q has much greater value to AZ as a trade bait than as a miscast right handed outfielder who's only played RF, and may be OK in LF and barely passable to bad in CF.

In my mind, Young in CF and Upton in RF are the clear choices over Q: they are younger AND have higher ceilings (arguably significantly higher ceilings). I also think that CarGo has a higher ceiling that Q, and CarGo is 3 years younger. You cannot just close your eyes and ignore their age.

In the end, it comes down to this:

Moorad wanted Eric Byrnes in LF instead of Q, and Josh Byrnes did NOT believe in Q enough to put his dick on the line for Q and veto Moorad. It is THAT simple. And I can see why JB did not believe in Q enough to fight for him, and it has NOTHING to do with Q being or not being one of "his" guys. It has to do with this:

Over the last 2 seasons, Q has not demonstrated convincingly that he would be an above average corner outfielder in the majors. In fact, he has not demonstrated that he would be even an AVERAGE corner OFer in the majors.

Last year, b/w AAA Tucson and AZ, he hit 18 homers in close to 500 at bats. This year, b/w AAA Tucson and AZ, he has hit 8 homers in a little over 300 at bats. That is BELOW average for a corner outfielder. He doesn't have the plate discipline of a CJ, and his HBP totals won't be nearly as high in the majors as they were in the low minors. So his OBP won't be great either.

So right now, I'd venture that MOST objective projections would have Q as a 15-20 homer guy with .250 ba over 500 at bats in the majors. That is NOT good. Of course, you can argue that he'll only get better, and that he was hurt this year... and those are valid arguments, but at the end of the day, when your dick is on the chopping block, and you're asked to pick your left fielder for the next couple of years, do you pick EB or CQ?

I'm guessing that Moorad promised JB that JB will have the payroll to address the other needs for next year, so then whether he's paying $10m to EB or $400K to CQ becomes relatively unimportant. It's not his money anyhow. And much as I've maligned the signing, EB does give the Dbacks a better option in LF over the next couple of years than CQ. Is EB going to be significantly better? Probably not, but he won't be worse. And his $10m isn't coming out of my pocket.

Long term, as long as the Dbacks keep CarGo around and have him take over LF once EB's outta here, they will have chosen the right 3 outfielders to keep. Or maybe even Parra will come along and take over EB instead of CarGo. Who knows. The reality is, the Dbacks have quality depth in the OF to replace EB AND CQ down the road (in CarGo, Cunningham, Parra). And the reality is, until those three reach the majors, EB will be the better LFer than Q. And the reality is, Q is our best trade bait to land us a solid pitcher in trade this offseason.


I do hope the Dbacks call up Q on Sept 1st, and I do hope he hits well enough here. One, the Dbacks could use some help on offense; and two, a hot Septemer will go a long way toward helping his trade value.

[EDIT] made a couple of clarifications
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Shoewizard is my Daddy

[levski]

oops

a post so nice i had to make it twice
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Shoewizard is my Daddy

[shoewizard]

Excellent summary of our many phone conversations. Glad I could convince you the EB signing wasn't the end of Josh Byrnes, just Carlos Quentin.

[moviegeekjn]

[levski]

[Dangerfield]

Bah humbug...You guys are right as usual, its all Eric Byrnes fault. Gas light Cq all you want for sport.
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My wife is always trying to get rid of me. The other day she told me to put the garbage out. I said to her I already did. She told me to go and keep an eye on it...and kurkjian is a jinx

[levski]

[shoewizard]

[Dangerfield]

[kris]

This is excellent analysis Levski.

I have some agreements and some disagreements too.
I may not be 100 % right, but here is my 2 cents.