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stu
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Joined: 12 Aug 2006
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 Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:02 am Post subject: |
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At the Q&A Josh said something about they even inquired about rule fiving their own player...which I didn't understand what he meant by that.
There is a gap of a few days between submitting the 40 man rosters and the draft itself. I interpreted JB's comment to mean that they knew they made a mistake and would cut someone from the 40 man so they could take Uggla or maybe a spot came open during that time frame. Or maybe he was just being funny, but it didn't seem that way.
At the time, Schultz and Slatten were the two I thought could be let go to keep Uggla. In hindsight, Gosling, Kroger and Hill would have been good choices. My guess is that the thinking with Uggla was that no one would take a AA player and give him a spot on the 25 man roster for the whole season. Once they saw (or relaized) where the Marlins with their 2b situation, they knew they had made a mistake.
Again in hindisght, IIRC, Uggla had moved positions a few times (at a suggestion of Wally Backman or another manager I think) so he was more than just a 2b. He could fill the UT spot on the 25 making him more likely to get picked.
Uggla's D was also better than I had heard. Maybe Josh should look at defensive stats (although I have no idea what they showed for Uggla).
Finally, in fairness to JB (and he has never used this excuse), he was new to the organization. While it is his decision, I'm sure he had to rely of people who he did not know that well and make decisions on players who he had not seen that much.
Finally, the decision to have Uggla play fall ball was the prior regime I think. It made little sense to showcase Uggla, have him play well and then not protect him. If he had played poorly, the choice would have made some sense (shortsighted and small sample driven but still some logic). Having him play as well as he did just highlighted him to other teams. Probably made no difference but they certainly weren't trying to hide him.
Last edited by stu on Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dangerfield
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Joined: 13 Aug 2006
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Location: worm factory
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| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| On a team where you could argue the more typical concern is no true cleanup guy, the credible concern is that we handle tough, right-handed pitching well enough," Byrnes said. |
does byrnes know he has this guy named Carlos Quentin on the team? Does he know, he has a guy named Chris Young, who as predicted by me, before hand would turn on a Jason Schmidt high fastball. And that wasn't luck btw. Does he know, now that the dodgers have the offensive dreg for the Dbacks last year, the last couple of years, because he wasn't an able risp leader? does he know, Stephen D. and Chad T. are going to pound the tough rh's? Does he know he has Ted Simmons and Wade Boggs type hitters? The dreg is gone. Now he wouldn't of been a dreg if he'd been put in the two hole, but that's an argument for a different day.
Relax Byrnes. I worry more about defensive communication, and field awareness more than the pitching and offense.
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Last edited by Dangerfield on Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:20 am; edited 2 times in total
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shoewizard
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| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:18 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for filling in the blanks Stu.
I remember Josh stating very clearly that he took responsibility for the Uggla gaffe. He didn't seem to be saying that just to say it.....he really felt responsible. |
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levski
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| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| Dangerfield wrote: |
| Quote: |
| On a team where you could argue the more typical concern is no true cleanup guy, the credible concern is that we handle tough, right-handed pitching well enough," Byrnes said. |
does byrnes know he has this guy named Carlos Quentin on the team? Does he know, he has a guy named Chris Young, who as predicted by me, before hand would turn on a Jason Schmidt high fastball. And that wasn't luck btw. Does he know, now that the dodgers have the offensive dreg for the Dbacks last year, the last couple of years, because he wasn't an able risp leader? does he know, Stephen D. and Chad T. are going to pound the tough rh's? Does he know he has Ted Simmons and Wade Boggs type hitters? The dreg is gone. Now he wouldn't of been a dreg if he'd been put in the two hole, but that's an argument for a different day.
Relax Byrnes. I worry more about defensive communication, and field awareness more than the pitching and offense.
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uh, danger is your middle name, I think you read this wrong. JB isn't arguing that the cleanup spot in a concern; I believe he's saying that most people perceive that to be a concern. Me, I don't think he twists late at night in bed worrying about the cleanup spot
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levski
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| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| shoewizard wrote: |
Thanks for filling in the blanks Stu.
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great. I give you the answer in one sentence, but you have to go with stu's veritable summary of the "row vs. wade" decision...
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TAP
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| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| shoewizard wrote: |
| I remember Josh stating very clearly that he took responsibility for the Uggla gaffe. He didn't seem to be saying that just to say it.....he really felt responsible. |
As with any good manager, when speaking to the public the buck stops here regardless of circumstances.
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shoewizard
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| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| levski wrote: |
| shoewizard wrote: |
Thanks for filling in the blanks Stu.
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great. I give you the answer in one sentence, but you have to go with stu's veritable summary of the "row vs. wade" decision...
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You get enough pats on the back.....although more than half of them seem to come from you. 
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Dangerfield
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| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| On a team where you could argue the more typical concern is no true cleanup guy, the credible concern is that we handle tough, right-handed pitching well enough," Byrnes said. |
Fair.
Uggla.--Well that was the bs Byrnes period where they signed Easley and Muholland. I blamed it all on a bowling tournament.
Now another thing to consider about Uggla, he had a monster behind him, yes Virginia, there is a correlation between Duncan and Pujols, and Uggla Cabrera. He took advantage of it, though and had a great manager.
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My wife is always trying to get rid of me. The other day she told me to put the garbage out. I said to her I already did. She told me to go and keep an eye on it
Last edited by Dangerfield on Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:41 am; edited 4 times in total
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stu
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Joined: 12 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:34 am Post subject: |
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great. I give you the answer in one sentence, but you have to go with stu's veritable summary of the "row vs. wade" decision...
Can't you at least make it the Flood decision so I can list some ball players. I always liked Blackmun. |
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levski
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| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| sure, you can have flood. it was better than john henry and but wors than apollo 18 |
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foulpole
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| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| shoewizard wrote: |
| ...but I had questioned on the old AZ Central board why there were so many relievers on the 40 man heading into last season... |
Maybe the FO realized that our rotation had weaknesses and wanted to concentrate on pitching depth?
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levski
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| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| foulpole wrote: |
| shoewizard wrote: |
| ...but I had questioned on the old AZ Central board why there were so many relievers on the 40 man heading into last season... |
Maybe the FO realized that our rotation had weaknesses and wanted to concentrate on pitching depth?
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actually, relievers are the easiest guys to lose in the rule 5. it's much easier to hide a guy in the back of the bullpen than the rotation or the bench.
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shoewizard
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| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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yeah that makes sense.
Is their history that suggests more relievers are taken in the rule 5 then anything else? |
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foulpole
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| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| levski wrote: |
| ...it's much easier to hide a guy in the back of the bullpen than the rotation or the bench. |
That's true. Pick him up in the rule 5, put him on the 25 man and, worst case, make him your mop up guy.
Last edited by foulpole on Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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levski
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| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| shoewizard wrote: |
yeah that makes sense.
Is their history that suggests more relievers are taken in the rule 5 then anything else? |
well, i'm no historian, but my gut tells me that if you look through the last several rule 5 drafts, you'd see an abundance of pitchers being taken, most of them relievers, and the fast majority of the few that stick almost always spend their rule 5 year in the pen...
next on the list are probably toolsy outfielders who can slot in as the 5th ofer/pinch runner. every now and then you have your chris sheldon and jose bautista, but those are rarer...
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NJ-DBACKS-FAN
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Joined: 11 Aug 2006
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Location: exit 8a
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| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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sounds like a good deal
a deep farm gets deeper
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