Either that was a pathetic effort tonight, or this team really just sucks...
or some combination of both...
punt 2006...
That was woody god damn williams...
f estrada, f green, f gonzo, f tracy, f aldrete....
Why did easley get an AB?
Thom was extremely annoying, but i think he did have a point about taking some pitches... i cant say im that happy with drew either, seeing about 5 pitches total tonight... I think hudson saw about 6 total...
And to emphasize the futility, both Tracy and Estrada made the final two outs by stricking out on bouncers. They shoulda brought cricket bats with them.
Loved the way the Diamondbacks quickly warmed up to newcomer Chris Young, especially center fielder Eric Byrnes, who took a seat on the bench and watched Young play in his place. Some veterans might get grumpy about a kid coming up and stealing a start or two, but Byrnes handled it just like a pro and went out of his way Friday to make Young feel welcome. That's classy.
Byrnes has been bashed by some of you guys so I just wanted to give him some props for how he handled this. Gonzo should take notes. I wouldn't mind our '07 outfield looking like this: LF - Byrnes, CF - Young, RF - Quentin, and 4th OF - DaVanon.
Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 172
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 5:32 am Post subject:
And about the actual game, glad it wasn't on ExtraInnings last night. I was a little disappointed I didn't get to see Young's debut though. We just seem like we're going through the motions. We're one game out of the playoffs and we're not playing with any sense of urgency. Hopefully the young guys won't hang around the Proven Veterans (TM) too long and start getting complacent too.
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 2404
Location: Gold Canyon
Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 5:57 am Post subject:
Steve Gilbert wrote:
Williams (6-4) allowed just two runs on four hits in 7 2/3 inning.
"The only guy who really had him squared away was Conor [Jackson]," Luis Gonzalez said.
Jackson, who had singled and walked in his first two plate appearances, gave the D-Backs some hope in the sixth when he hit a hanging curveball into the left-field seats to pull Arizona to within 3-1.
"I think my game plan tonight was to get him early, because he was putting the ball where he wanted it," Jackson said. "He was spotting it unbelievable. You weren't seeing the same look. Every at-bat you were seeing something different."
Jackson has been on a roll of late, having hit safely in seven of his last eight games.
Or as Thom would say, "Boy oh boy, more first pitch hacking by Jackson."
What Thom has never seemed to understand is that the pitcher has something to do with the process. If a pitcher is throwing strikes then you almost have to be agressive early in the count as hitting 0-1 and 0-2 lowers your average a bunch.
Williams was throwing pitch strikes last night. A few players like Estrada were guilty of swinging at balls out of the zone. Drew at least once flied out on a 1-0 pitch out of the zone. However, for the most part, it looked like strikes they swinging at.
The balls out of the zone that they chased were later in the count (if 0-1, 1-2 is later in the count). The other problem was the type of pitch they were first or second pitch hacking at. If you going to swing on the first pitch or a 1-0, it needs to be in about the 330 zone.
Another point is that if you foul off a first pitch strike there has been no damage. The pitch was going to be a strike anyway so it is 0-1 whether you have fouled it off or not. The emphasis should be on the quality of the pitch the players are swinging at, not just a simplistic "first pitch hacking" analysis.
Last edited by stu on Sat Aug 19, 2006 7:51 am; edited 1 time in total
Here is the CBS game summary. The first time through the lineup, 6 of the 9 hitter took strikes before swinging. Of the three who swung, one got a hit and two got line drives.
They were worst the second time through as 4 out of the 9 took strikes before swinging. However, only Estrada and the pitcher made an out without taking at least one pitch. I agree the Dbacks were too agreesive last night, but I think the issue early in the game was more swinging at ball out of the hitting zone after the first pitch than "first ptich hacking".
The 7th inning was ugly I agree.
Drew: Strike looking, Strike swinging, Drew struck out looking.
Conor Jackson: Jackson singled to center.
Luis E. Gonzalez: Gonzalez lined into double play first, Jackson out at first.
End of Inning (0 Runs, 1 Hit, 0 Errors)
)
Diamondbacks 2nd
Woody Williams pitching:
Shawn Green: Ball, Strike looking, Green grounded out to first.
Chad Tracy: Strike looking, Ball, Strike looking, Tracy struck out on foul tip.
Johnny Estrada: Strike looking, Ball, Foul, Foul, Foul, Foul, Foul, Ball, Ball, Foul, Estrada struck out on foul tip.
End of Inning (0 Runs, 0 Hits, 0 Errors)
Diamondbacks 3rd
Woody Williams pitching:
Orlando Hudson: Hudson lined out to center.
Chris B. Young: Strike looking, Ball, Ball, Foul, Young grounded out to third.
Enrique Gonzalez: Ball, Strike looking, Ball, Gonzalez grounded out to second.
Diamondbacks 4th
Woody Williams pitching:
Stephen O. Drew: Ball, Drew flied out to left.
Conor Jackson: Strike looking, Ball, Ball, Ball, Foul, Foul, Jackson walked.
Luis E. Gonzalez: Strike looking, Foul, Ball, Ball, Gonzalez flied out to center.
Shawn Green: Foul, Ball, Ball, Foul, Ball, Green walked, Jackson to second.
Chad Tracy: Strike looking, Tracy flied out to left.
Diamondbacks 5th
Woody Williams pitching:
Johnny Estrada: Estrada grounded out to first.
Orlando Hudson: Ball, Strike looking, Strike looking, Foul, Hudson struck out swinging.
Chris B. Young: Foul, Young popped out to shortstop.
End of Inning (0 Runs, 0 Hits, 0 Errors)
Diamondbacks 6th
Woody Williams pitching:
Enrique Gonzalez: Gonzalez grounded out to second.
Stephen O. Drew: Drew grounded out to third.
Conor Jackson: Jackson homered to left.
Luis E. Gonzalez: Ball, Ball, Strike looking, Foul, Gonzalez grounded out to second.
Diamondbacks 7th
Woody Williams pitching:
Shawn Green: Mark Bellhorn at third, Green flied out to left.
Chad Tracy: Tracy flied out to left.
Johnny Estrada: Estrada flied out to left.
End of Inning (0 Runs, 0 Hits, 0 Errors)
Diamondbacks 8th
Woody Williams pitching:
Orlando Hudson: Hudson flied out to first.
Chris B. Young: Ball, Strike swinging, Foul, Young singled to center
Damion Easley hit for Brandon Medders.
Damion Easley: Strike looking, Strike looking, Easley grounded out to pitcher, Young to second.
Stephen O. Drew: Drew singled to shallow left center, Young scored.
Conor Jackson: Cla C. Meredith relieved Woody Williams, Strike looking, Strike swinging, Ball, Ball, Jackson grounded out to third.
Sorry for the number of posts. I assume that Thom was all over Jackson for first pitch hacking last night. He was as big of an offender as anyone against Williams.
Last edited by stu on Sat Aug 19, 2006 7:37 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 3242
Location: In front of my computer
Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 7:36 am Post subject:
Jackson was golden last night....they were on Drew and the others quite a bit though.
_________________
League average when you are paying league minimum is great value, League average when you are paying 10 million sucks.
Sorry for the number of posts. I assume that Thom was all over Jackson for first pitch hacking last night. He was as big of an offender as anyone against Williams.
Thom only gets on cases for "first pitch hacking" when they don't get a hit, so Jackson was the sole poster child of success last night. Everyone else was toast... and praise for Gonzo's last AB for being THE pattern that should have been the blueprint much earlier.
The Dbacks were 0 for 10 (with a walk) on ab's where they took a first pitch strike. They were 3 for 12 with a home run (250/250/500) where they put the first pitch in play.
Yes, they did poorly on first pitches in play and if this was what they were doing all the time, I would agree they were swinging at too many first pitches. However, between taking first pitch strikes and putting the first pitch in play what was the greater problem last night?
Sorry for the number of posts. I assume that Thom was all over Jackson for first pitch hacking last night. He was as big of an offender as anyone against Williams.
Thom only gets on cases for "first pitch hacking" when they don't get a hit, so Jackson was the sole poster child of success last night. Everyone else was toast... and praise for Gonzo's last AB for being THE pattern that should have been the blueprint much earlier.
There just doesn't appear to be any logical attack pattern by D'back hitters when they get to the plate. IMO, there is nothing wrong at all by swinging at that first pitch IF it is the type of pitch you have much success with and IF it is in the specific zone where you are most successful when swinging at it: ie, fastball down the middle waist high. I call this a "prime pitch". Makes little difference in my estimation if the batter actually gets a hit when he swings at that prime pitch because his BA is going to be higher when swinging at this pitch than when he swings at much less desirable pitches. The whole point is, with a decent pitcher out there on the mound, that prime pitch probably is the best one he's going to see during his AB.
Conversely, when the pitcher is a nibbler and often goes to 0-2, trying to get the batter to swing at a bad pitch, or even at a "good" pitch for the pitcher but a "bad" one for the batter, (ie, slider which hits the edge of the plate low and away for a called strike), it is foolish to hack at these pitches because it is least likely the batter will get a hit. Better to wait for a more hittable pitch.
So many of our players consistantly let that first pitch go by when it is a "prime pitch", either because they don't know what they are doing at the plate (my own guess) or because they have a notion to "work the pitcher". Well, working the pitcher is fine but when the pitcher is on his game you are playing into his hands badly when you allow that "prime pitch' to sail past you. Now you have to hit a pitcher's pitch if you are going to get a base knock at all. And we've seen how often THAT happens this season.
I don't think D'back hitters have much of a philosophy at all at the plate. And I think lack of stress by coaching on this point is a factor in what we've seen with Conor Jackson where his initial command of the strike zone has deteriorated quite a bit as the season has gone on, swinging at many more bad pitches, taking fewer walks, etc. Tracy is especially notable as one who consistantly takes that first pitch "prime pitch" and then winds up flailing at pitcher's pitches with little results.
I know this isn't necessarily an easy thing to learn but one would think that more players would be implementing such a hitting strategy as they reach the majors.
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formerly ROF
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 660
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 10:22 am Post subject:
I agree, Charlie. But I just want to point out that the deteriorization of Jackson's strike zone judgement has ended. He's hitting .362 in August, OBP 434, SLG 511 - OPS 945 month-to-date.
I agree 100% Charlie. I'd add to Oden's thought that I think the umps were pimping Jackson for at least the first half of the season and that he was having trouble adjusting to balls being called strikes.
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