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YBC-Dog
MLB Rookie
Joined: 11 Aug 2006
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Location: The PHX
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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whatuwant wrote: |
all pretty big. There was a point in this season when just about everybody wanted Snyder on the bench and Montero hitting everyday. Before Snyder cemented his starting role, Montero was actually a bigger offensive presence..... |
Raises his hand quietly. I was one of the offenders who doubted Snyder.
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whatuwant
Veteran Presence
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 2110
Location: Phoenix
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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YBC-Dog wrote: |
whatuwant wrote: |
. Before Snyder cemented his starting role, Montero was actually a bigger offensive presence.... |
Raises his hand quietly. I was one of the offenders who doubted Snyder.
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so was i... ; but i've always liked him because i saw him once at Chipotle...lol
my loyalties are handed out easily
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Gorfo57
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Joined: 13 Oct 2006
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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I think Melvin was thinking win in the top of the 8th. Was thinking Augie could start something by getting on base. With Young, Hudson, and Byrnes to follow, a 2 run HR or rally might have tipped the scales in our bullpen's favor. Maybe he felt a slapper like Ojeda had a better chance of getting wood on the ball than Clark facing Heath Bell? That boy can flat out bring it.
It's what I've come to expect watching Melvin manage over the years. He always sticks with a starter to get through an inning when due up the following inning.
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Gorfo57
Upton everyday.
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TAP
Face of the Franchise
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 7713
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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whatuwant wrote: |
YBC-Dog wrote: |
whatuwant wrote: |
. Before Snyder cemented his starting role, Montero was actually a bigger offensive presence.... |
Raises his hand quietly. I was one of the offenders who doubted Snyder.
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so was i... ; but i've always liked him because i saw him once at Chipotle...lol
my loyalties are handed out easily
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loyalty whore
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shoewizard
Face of the Franchise
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 8822
Location: In front of my computer
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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FatLeprechaun wrote: |
I'm tired of BoMel's obssession with lefty/righty matchups. Salazar, Ojeda, and Montero suck. |
Wait a minute....weren't you one of the posse that wanted to bench Snyder and play Montero every day?
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foulpole
Hall of Famer
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 4089
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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Well, they stole one tonight...
Let's get 'em tomorrow.
BTW, they are still chasing us. |
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swishin13
Everyday Player
Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 780
Location: Queen Creek
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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foulpole wrote: |
Well, they stole one tonight...
Let's get 'em tomorrow.
BTW, they are still chasing us. |
Umm????
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dirtygary
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Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 2224
Location: Phoenix
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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Up in Kayenta with no cell service or tv. "Watched" the game with espn's bottom line.
We shouldn't have won tonight with the way Peavy was throwing. Almost stole it, but nobody was hitting.
Great start, Livo. Any run support and his start is looking a lot better.
Owings and #5 are still the weak links.
Gotta get 'em back tomorrow and Wednesday.
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foulpole
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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swishin13 wrote: |
foulpole wrote: |
Well, they stole one tonight...
Let's get 'em tomorrow.
BTW, they are still chasing us. |
Umm????
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It's the underpants gnomes from South Park.
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swishin13
Everyday Player
Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 780
Location: Queen Creek
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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foulpole wrote: |
swishin13 wrote: |
foulpole wrote: |
Well, they stole one tonight...
Let's get 'em tomorrow.
BTW, they are still chasing us. |
Umm????
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Oh ok didn't know what it was from.
It's the underpants gnomes from South Park.
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David B
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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Let's see...managerial decisions that came up during this thread...
I think it was smart not to bunt with Salazar up in the second, two on, and none out. Even if he moves them over, you're depending on Montero and Cirillo to bring them in. It didn't work out this time, but I'd rather have Salazar up with the extra out to play with.
I've got no problem with BoMel sticking with Hernandez through seven. Bullpen has been used a lot, and it's not like Cruz came in and shut 'em down when he was sent in. As much use as the bullpen has gotten this season, if they changed pitchers every time some of you think they should, the relievers would all be crippled by now.
Pinch hitting with Augie? I'm not crazy about that move. I'm sure he considered using Clark, but my guess is that, since Petco isn't a HR park, Melvin was concerned about Clark clogging the bases in a one-run game and thus having to send in a pinch runner and burn through two players.
Letting Salazar hit in the ninth? I'm ok with that. With Montero, Cirillo, and the pitcher coming up, you have to save some guys to hit for them.
Letting Montero hit? Bad move. You've got much stronger options on the bench, particularly Upton.
Lastly, the lineup construction tonight. It was an awfully soft bottom of the order, but I'm sure Melvin thought he had a better shot against Peavy with the lefties. I think most managers would have tried a similar tact.
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shoewizard
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
Letting Montero hit? Bad move. You've got much stronger options on the bench, particularly Upton. |
I can understand those that want to PH Clark for Montero there....THEY have a case....even if I didn't agree.
But Upton? What manager is going to pinch hit for his LEFTY batter with a righty, who happens to be a rookie too, who is barely above the mendoza line vs. righties so far in his brief major league career.
If the choice is Upton or Montero....you stick with Montero, and go with the lefty/righty matchup.
Ya know...something guys are just not getting here:
Peavy's OPS against is 270 point higher vs. lefties than righties. Thats not a small difference....is it?
697 vs. 426
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THE SHADOW
Everyday Player
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 502
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:20 pm Post subject: Re: Subject: |
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TAP wrote: |
shoewizard wrote: |
dahlian wrote: |
You guys are like Angels fans with all of the pissy self-immolation. |
Exactly....
It's ridiculous...we lost a frickin ball game to the likely Cy Young winner and everyone is jumping off a bridge....I don't get it.
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'everyone' is a pretty absolute word.
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LMAO
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levski
Hall of Famer
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 4491
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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shoewizard wrote: |
Ya know...something guys are just not getting here:
Peavy's OPS against is 270 point higher vs. lefties than righties. Thats not a small difference....is it?
697 vs. 426 |
I'm sick and tired of your "stats". Give me chemistry and clubhouse leadership.
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William K
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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shoewizard wrote: |
I'll say it right here.
If Livan has a quality start tonight and the Dbacks win the game, I promise not to say one more bad word about him the rest of the season. |
Does 7 innings of 2-run ball but a loss get him a week or two?
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THE SHADOW
Everyday Player
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 502
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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dirtygary wrote: |
Up in Kayenta with no cell service or tv. "Watched" the game with espn's bottom line. |
What do you do up there? I love that part of the state
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shoewizard
Face of the Franchise
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
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Location: In front of my computer
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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William K wrote: |
shoewizard wrote: |
I'll say it right here.
If Livan has a quality start tonight and the Dbacks win the game, I promise not to say one more bad word about him the rest of the season. |
Does 7 innings of 2-run ball but a loss get him a week or two?
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Hell...out of principle, I'll stop bitching about him the rest of the reg. season.....
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David B
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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The at bat in the ninth was against Hoffman, not Peavy. Montero came into the game 3-for-7 against Peavy, so I can see where staring him was a calculated move. But with Peavy out of the game, you have to look at your options...
Montero .217, .669 in 161 AB against RH
Clark .239, .754 in 134 AB againsr RH
Upton .208, .553 in 48 AB agsinst RH
Snyder .236. .744 in 157 AB against RH
Not a slam dunk in the bunch, but Clark and Snyder would have been clearly better choices to Montero. Clark is also 2-for-5 vs Hoffman. I threw Upton's name out there without researching the matter, but my general premise remains the same. Melvin had stronger options to Montero to hit in the ninth.
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TAP
Face of the Franchise
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 7713
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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shoewizard wrote: |
William K wrote: |
shoewizard wrote: |
I'll say it right here.
If Livan has a quality start tonight and the Dbacks win the game, I promise not to say one more bad word about him the rest of the season. |
Does 7 innings of 2-run ball but a loss get him a week or two?
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Hell...out of principle, I'll stop bitching about him the rest of the reg. season.....
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You sure that's healthy?
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- 2007 National League West Champions
- 2007 NLDS Winners
- 2008 World Champions
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shoewizard
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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Oh...I'm sure I'll find another outlet.....there is always so much to choose from.
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stu
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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In 35 pa's Clark is 258/343/581 as a ph. |
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David B
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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If you can't use your PV pinch hitter in the ninth inning, with two outs (thus, no chance to hit into a game ending double play), the tying runners on, on the road in the middle of a penant race, substituting for a clearly inferior hitter, then when the fuck can you use him?
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Football is a mistake. It combines the two worst elements of American life. Violence and committee meetings.
--George F. Will |
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swishin13
Everyday Player
Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 780
Location: Queen Creek
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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David B wrote: |
If you can't use your PV pinch hitter in the ninth inning, with two outs (thus, no chance to hit into a game ending double play), the tying runners on, on the road in the middle of a penant race, substituting for a clearly inferior hitter, then when the fuck can you use him? |
To start and go 0-4 with 3k's and a DP.
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shoewizard
Face of the Franchise
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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David B wrote: |
If you can't use your PV pinch hitter in the ninth inning, with two outs (thus, no chance to hit into a game ending double play), the tying runners on, on the road in the middle of a penant race, substituting for a clearly inferior hitter, then when the fuck can you use him? |
You are right...Melvin is a lousy manager.
Hoffman OPS against
.757 lefties, 455 righties.
Montero is a lefty.
Maybe he should have gone with Clark there. You've made a good case. He played a hunch perhaps. It didn't work.
Honestly, I think if he pinch hits for Montero there, the kid is done for the year, knowing his manager has lost all confidence in him.
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swishin13
Everyday Player
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Posts: 780
Location: Queen Creek
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Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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shoewizard wrote: |
David B wrote: |
If you can't use your PV pinch hitter in the ninth inning, with two outs (thus, no chance to hit into a game ending double play), the tying runners on, on the road in the middle of a penant race, substituting for a clearly inferior hitter, then when the fuck can you use him? |
Honestly, I think if he pinch hits for Montero there, the kid is done for the year, knowing his manager has lost all confidence in him.
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Which is why he probably did it, that I can understand. Clark probably would have struck out there anyway. Just as a fan you would like to see the best baseball move made. In the long-run it might benefit showing confidence in Montero, and he comes up with a big hit later in the season. We all know getting this game would have been highway robbery anyway.
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