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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:24 am Post subject:
Quote:
did you mean to quote the post prior to this one? Razz
no.
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Poor Q, never seen a player of his caliber so screwed by an organization ever. Young/Salazar are JB's guys. CQ odd man, and should of been dealt just out of respect, but business is business. Byrnes isn't a 3/4/5 guy, neither is Young, Quentin's a 4/5 and this will be a tough problem for them to solve down the stretch most likely. Come on Upton.
That's BS. Q is a JB guy.
Unfortunately, EB is a Moorad guy.
Moorad killed Q's future in AZ, not JB.
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:50 am Post subject:
levski wrote:
Dangerfield wrote:
Poor Q, never seen a player of his caliber so screwed by an organization ever. Young/Salazar are JB's guys. CQ odd man, and should of been dealt just out of respect, but business is business. Byrnes isn't a 3/4/5 guy, neither is Young, Quentin's a 4/5 and this will be a tough problem for them to solve down the stretch most likely. Come on Upton.
That's BS. Q is a JB guy.
Unfortunately, EB is a Moorad guy.
Moorad killed Q's future in AZ, not JB.
the send down of him, while other guy's were struggling just as mightily, the pinch hitting of Hairston in Stl, which probably bummed Hairston while the team was scuffling, and there's more than that. The bring of up of Salazar who becomes a poster boy for a month. The non-stop criticism of him in the media, of more or less a rookie. the famous Williams interview on tv. Not one person from the both on down talking about his home/road splits and his good risp ability.. for a team that still stinks with risp.Heck I think he still has more career rbi's than Young and Drew. They looked for a scapegoat at the time, and now Upton's up in his place as well. Blame Moorad, I blame JB. You mentioned some of the other things, but no matter he'll bring us some talent. package Montero/Q together it should net a pitcher.
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Catching up on old news, Kerry Walls of SportingNews.com today wrote:
In the span of a few weeks, Carlos Quentin's future in Arizona has become pretty murky.
First, the team called up super prospect Justin Upton from Double-A to pick up at-bats in right field when Quentin landed on the DL with a hamstring injury. Then the Diamondbacks inked left fielder Eric Byrnes to a three-year contract extension. Factor in the emergence of five-tool center fielder Chris Young, and it is hard to imagine Quentin having a long-term future in Arizona.
Quentin is rehabbing his hammy at Triple-A Tucson and should return to the D-backs before September 1. But even with Upton struggling recently, will Quentin get a lot of playing time in September? Not that Quentin has earned it this season, hitting .208 with five homers and 28 RBIs in 216 at-bats.
However, Quentin is only 24 -- he'll turn 25 on August 28 -- and there's still a lot to like about his potential going forward. But where will he wind up? Arizona could hold on to him as insurance should Upton prove he is not ready to be a starter in 2008. More than likely, however, the team will use Quentin as a trading chip in the offseason -- possibly along with Conor Jackson -- to pick up a much-needed starting pitcher or a veteran bat.
Heading into 2007, Quentin had hit .309 with 51 homers, 230 RBIs and a .427 OBP in his minor league career.
link
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Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:53 am Post subject:
TAP wrote:
Catching up on old news, Kerry Walls of SportingNews.com today wrote:
In the span of a few weeks, Carlos Quentin's future in Arizona has become pretty murky.
First, the team called up super prospect Justin Upton from Double-A to pick up at-bats in right field when Quentin landed on the DL with a hamstring injury. Then the Diamondbacks inked left fielder Eric Byrnes to a three-year contract extension. Factor in the emergence of five-tool center fielder Chris Young, and it is hard to imagine Quentin having a long-term future in Arizona.
Quentin is rehabbing his hammy at Triple-A Tucson and should return to the D-backs before September 1. But even with Upton struggling recently, will Quentin get a lot of playing time in September? Not that Quentin has earned it this season, hitting .208 with five homers and 28 RBIs in 216 at-bats.
However, Quentin is only 24 -- he'll turn 25 on August 28 -- and there's still a lot to like about his potential going forward. But where will he wind up? Arizona could hold on to him as insurance should Upton prove he is not ready to be a starter in 2008. More than likely, however, the team will use Quentin as a trading chip in the offseason -- possibly along with Conor Jackson -- to pick up a much-needed starting pitcher or a veteran bat.
Heading into 2007, Quentin had hit .309 with 51 homers, 230 RBIs and a .427 OBP in his minor league career.
link
so let the talk begin...
CQ7 and CJ16 for what SP or SP's
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We better make sure Tracy is healthy enough to play 140+ games at 1B before we even think about trading CoJack. Personally, I think any scenario of the such has disaster written all over it.
We better make sure Tracy is healthy enough to play 140+ games at 1B before we even think about trading CoJack. Personally, I think any scenario of the such has disaster written all over it.
I agree. If you are giving up Jackson and Quentin, you better be getting one nice package in return.
Truthfully, I prefer we keep both of them and try to unload Tracy and eat as little salary as possible.
Upton is struggling and while I don't want them to mess around with him and send him down, isn't it just as bad to let him wallow in the majors and continue to slump badly over a long period of time, if he does continue to struggle?
Q would be one of the best insurance policies in the MLB. It stinks that he would probably be a backup outfielder, but he's in our system and we drafted him and developed him so, the lord giveth and the lord taketh away.
Scottie Hairston could call him up and say, "You think YOU have it bad..."
My fear is that we are once again selling low (but unlike Tracy, I think Q will be a big star). I don't mind if we get rid of Q if we get something really good in return, but if everyone else thinks we are dumping and won't give us good return, keep him as a backup and insurance policy if someone gets hurt or Upton struggles.
I think we might end up needing Q again before the end of the year anyway, with Upton struggling. I don't think they'll send him down, I just think they might bench him a little more and get Q or Salazar some AB's.
We better make sure Tracy is healthy enough to play 140+ games at 1B before we even think about trading CoJack. Personally, I think any scenario of the such has disaster written all over it.
I agree. If you are giving up Jackson and Quentin, you better be getting one nice package in return.
Truthfully, I prefer we keep both of them and try to unload Tracy and eat as little salary as possible.
Upton is struggling and while I don't want them to mess around with him and send him down, isn't it just as bad to let him wallow in the majors and continue to slump badly over a long period of time, if he does continue to struggle?
Q would be one of the best insurance policies in the MLB. It stinks that he would probably be a backup outfielder, but he's in our system and we drafted him and developed him so, the lord giveth and the lord taketh away.
Scottie Hairston could call him up and say, "You think YOU have it bad..."
My fear is that we are once again selling low (but unlike Tracy, I think Q will be a big star). I don't mind if we get rid of Q if we get something really good in return, but if everyone else thinks we are dumping and won't give us good return, keep him as a backup and insurance policy if someone gets hurt or Upton struggles.
I think we might end up needing Q again before the end of the year anyway, with Upton struggling. I don't think they'll send him down, I just think they might bench him a little more and get Q or Salazar some AB's.
It might be a big waste of a gold glove calibre outfielder to stick him at 1B though.
Quentin's defense was never in question. How soon we forget his over the wall catches that saved HR's for the Diamondbacks.
It's his hitting that's taken a slump, and only at the MLB level. As soon as they put him back in Tucson the all-star numbers re-appear: .384/.475/.628 - 1.103
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It might be a big waste of a gold glove calibre outfielder to stick him at 1B though.
Maybe - but it might bridge the gap between now and when EB is gone. Maybe not. Comes down to whether you think you would rather have Jackson or Quentin. Keep tracy at 1B - he cant be traded at this point. Have Q play there against lefties, adn occasionally in the OF. Basically take Clarks spot? Maybe its a bad idea. Just trying to figure a solution to not trading low on him.
It might be a big waste of a gold glove calibre outfielder to stick him at 1B though.
Maybe - but it might bridge the gap between now and when EB is gone. Maybe not. Comes down to whether you think you would rather have Jackson or Quentin. Keep tracy at 1B - he cant be traded at this point. Have Q play there against lefties, adn occasionally in the OF. Basically take Clarks spot? Maybe its a bad idea. Just trying to figure a solution to not trading low on him.
I like it.
I would rather have Q than Conor or Tracy, but I'd still get rid of Tracy. IMO, 2005 is as good as it gets for Tracy. He'll never live up to it again, so find a team that still likes him and send $2M or so with his bad contract (a JB mistake IMO) for a bucket of balls, and put Jackson at 1B and use Q as your backup OF/1B.
Most likely we'll keep Tracy, but I don't see him ever getting close to his 2005 numbers, and that's if he can even stay healthy.
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Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:37 am Post subject:
As an offensive player, Jackson > Quentin
Always has been, always will be
Of course Q is a great right fielder, (although I don't think his throwing was good this year at all), so his defensive value in RF makes up a big chunk of the gap between him and CJ on offense.
But if you ask me who I'd rather have at first, it's CJ over Q, and it's not even remotely close.
Of course Q is a great right fielder, (although I don't think his throwing was good this year at all), so his defensive value in RF makes up a big chunk of the gap between him and CJ on offense.
But if you ask me who I'd rather have at first, it's CJ over Q, and it's not even remotely close.
That isnt really the question though. The question is really Tracy vs Jackson.
Like i said - im just thinking out loud here - but IMO the only guy of Tracy / Quentin / Jackson whose trade value isnt low right now is Jackson. Tracy and Jackson are pretty close to a wash IMO offensively - and i would give tracy the edge if he were platooned to elim ABs vs LHers.
Whatever - im not sold either - just an idea.
Just depends on the trade value of those 3 though.
...send $2M or so with his bad contract (a JB mistake IMO)...
Funny thing about that is Tracy's offensive production nosedived the week after signing his contract extension. Up until the day of signing he was a stud at the plate.
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Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:49 am Post subject:
TAP wrote:
YBC-Dog wrote:
...send $2M or so with his bad contract (a JB mistake IMO)...
Funny thing about that is Tracy's offensive production nosedived the week after signing his contract extension. Up until the day of signing he was a stud at the plate.
Coincidence? Or cause and effect?
I don't know the man at all; but from the little I've seen and heard, Tracy doesn't strike me as the sort of person who would go "all out" to get a raise, and then coast thereafter...
...send $2M or so with his bad contract (a JB mistake IMO)...
Funny thing about that is Tracy's offensive production nosedived the week after signing his contract extension. Up until the day of signing he was a stud at the plate.
Coincidence? Or cause and effect?
I don't know the man at all; but from the little I've seen and heard, Tracy doesn't strike me as the sort of person who would go "all out" to get a raise, and then coast thereafter...
Maybe he changed his approach at the plate after signing in an attempt to earn that bigger paycheck, leading to the additional K-rate and lower OBP.
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Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:57 am Post subject:
TAP wrote:
EvilJuan wrote:
TAP wrote:
YBC-Dog wrote:
...send $2M or so with his bad contract (a JB mistake IMO)...
Funny thing about that is Tracy's offensive production nosedived the week after signing his contract extension. Up until the day of signing he was a stud at the plate.
Coincidence? Or cause and effect?
I don't know the man at all; but from the little I've seen and heard, Tracy doesn't strike me as the sort of person who would go "all out" to get a raise, and then coast thereafter...
Maybe he changed his approach at the plate after signing in an attempt to earn that bigger paycheck, leading to the additional K-rate and lower OBP.
An excellent point. I think you're on to something there...
Why not get rid of O'Dawg's salary---trade him, and plug Upton in at 2nd base. Wasn't he originally penciled in as an infielder? That opens up a spot for CQ in RF. WOW, what is really amazing is that for years at AZ Central, I heard about how CQ and CJ were can't miss prospects, and now after barely a year and half, we are ready to unload them!
Also, if Upton continues his slide, he may still need to go back for a stint in the minors, which may give Q another chance to prove he can hit vs. Major League pitching.
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Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 11:04 am Post subject:
qudjy1 wrote:
shoewizard wrote:
As an offensive player, Jackson > Quentin
Always has been, always will be
Of course Q is a great right fielder, (although I don't think his throwing was good this year at all), so his defensive value in RF makes up a big chunk of the gap between him and CJ on offense.
But if you ask me who I'd rather have at first, it's CJ over Q, and it's not even remotely close.
That isnt really the question though. The question is really Tracy vs Jackson.
Like i said - im just thinking out loud here - but IMO the only guy of Tracy / Quentin / Jackson whose trade value isnt low right now is Jackson. Tracy and Jackson are pretty close to a wash IMO offensively - and i would give tracy the edge if he were platooned to elim ABs vs LHers.
Whatever - im not sold either - just an idea.
Just depends on the trade value of those 3 though.
We better check in with Stu first to make sure we got the trade value rigtht before proceeding.
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Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 11:12 am Post subject:
Big Cat wrote:
Why not get rid of O'Dawg's salary---trade him, and plug Upton in at 2nd base. Wasn't he originally penciled in as an infielder? That opens up a spot for CQ in RF. WOW, what is really amazing is that for years at AZ Central, I heard about how CQ and CJ were can't miss prospects, and now after barely a year and half, we are ready to unload them!
Also, if Upton continues his slide, he may still need to go back for a stint in the minors, which may give Q another chance to prove he can hit vs. Major League pitching.
Great point. I get frustrated as all heck with these guys. The fact is they have not performed up to expectations.
But I wasn't happy with the EB extension, not the least of which because it meant Quentins chances here are done, (unless Upton hits .120 the rest of the year, an even then I think he'll be opening day rightfielder.)
I've been up and down with CJ all year too...but I ultimately came to the conclusion that they need to stick with him at least one more year. 2008 is his final "Pre arb" year. While he is still making just barely more than league minimum, his production is acceptable. Once he starts getting into the millions, if his production does not improve, then they should move him.
But there is that "sell high/sell low" issue, and sometimes to be out in front of the curve you have to take a chance.
Jackson has had over 1000 Major League plate appearances already. I'd say by the time you get to 1500, you pretty much know what you got...but then...so will everyone else. If he does not develop more power and consistency by the end of 2008, how much trade value would he have?
Carlos on the other hand only has 441 PA. First he was blocked by Shawn Green. Then he tore his labrum. Now he is blocked again by Eric Byrnes.
It's not us who gave up on him, it's the organization. We are simply reacting to that.
...send $2M or so with his bad contract (a JB mistake IMO)...
Funny thing about that is Tracy's offensive production nosedived the week after signing his contract extension. Up until the day of signing he was a stud at the plate.
Coincidence? Or cause and effect?
I don't know the man at all; but from the little I've seen and heard, Tracy doesn't strike me as the sort of person who would go "all out" to get a raise, and then coast thereafter...
Maybe he changed his approach at the plate after signing in an attempt to earn that bigger paycheck, leading to the additional K-rate and lower OBP.
An excellent point. I think you're on to something there...
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