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FatLeprechaun
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 Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| The best arguments in favor of Webb over Peavy are park effects (e.g., park-adjusted ERA) and innings pitched. I hope the Cy Young voters are sophisticated enough to realize that. |
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shoewizard
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| FatLeprechaun wrote: |
| The best arguments in favor of Webb over Peavy are park effects (e.g., park-adjusted ERA) and innings pitched. I hope the Cy Young voters are sophisticated enough to realize that. |
Well, even if they did take those things into account, Peavy STILL has an edge on Webb
| Code: |
ERA+ 188-177
PRC 119-111
VORP 62.4-57.5 |
The Gaps are not large....but they exist. Webb can overtake Peavy. It's doable. It just hasn't happened yet.
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YBC-Dog
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Joined: 11 Aug 2006
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Location: The PHX
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| On the bright side of all this for us D-Back fans, Peavy's salary jumps from $6M to $11M over the next 2 years if he wins the Cy Young award, which means we win even if Peavy gets the CY. |
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levski
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:50 am Post subject: |
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Passan column
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shoewizard
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Catcher Chris Snyder stuck out his hand for a shake and instead got a slap from Webb's glove, as if Webb wanted to say that eight innings remained and the Diamondbacks had plenty of time to win. |
Webby in a nutshell.
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dirtygary
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:32 am Post subject: |
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Never satisfied.
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mwmags2002
Everyday Player
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:22 pm Post subject: Nice Artice on Webb & CY |
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Link
Streak over, Webb sets his sights on second consecutive Cy Young Award
By ANDREW BAGNATO, AP Sports Writer
August 23, 2007
PHOENIX (AP) -- Now that his scoreless streak is over, Brandon Webb is setting his sights on something else: a second straight Cy Young Award.
Webb's string ended at 42 innings Wednesday night when he gave up a run in the first against Milwaukee. He went on to pitch the NL West-leading Arizona Diamondbacks to a 3-2 win.
ADVERTISEMENT
"I finished up pretty strong last year, and I feel pretty strong right now," Webb said. "I'd say it's pretty comparable."
Webb was nowhere near Cy Young contention when he dropped three straight decisions to fall to 8-8 on July 20. But the 28-year-old righty has won six straight starts -- including three complete-game shutouts -- and has helped carry the surprising young Diamondbacks.
"Since then, he's taken off and been the horse that we expect him to be," Arizona manager Bob Melvin said.
Webb's 191 2-3 innings are most in the majors. He has three shutouts, and no other National Leaguer has more than one.
Webb's 2.63 ERA is fourth in the NL, behind Chris Young's 2.12, Jake Peavy's 2.21 and Brad Penny's 2.59.
Webb has 166 strikeouts. Only Peavy, with 186, has more in the NL. |
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Gorfo57
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:30 am Post subject: |
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I'm not pulling for any pitcher other than Webb to win the CY this season, but...
I wouldn't be too quick to rule Hudson out of the CY race just yet. Especially when you consider the argument that will pop up when writers start to look over the hitting numbers of division opponents.
15-5 3.07 ERA 110 Ks 42 BBs 178.2 IP
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Gorfo57
Upton everyday.
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allstar
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:56 am Post subject: |
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As of today,
Jake Peavy (14-5 2.21ERA 0CG 170.2IP 186K)
Brandon Webb (14-8 2.63ERA 4CG 3SHO 191.2IP 166K)
Brad Penny (14-4 2.65ERA 0CG 173IP 121K)
If Webb continues to pitch well, which I'm sure he will, Webb has to be in favor due to the park factors and his innings pitched and complete game/shutouts.
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shoewizard
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| Cy Young voters don't consider park factors. |
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qudjy1
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| shoewizard wrote: |
| Cy Young voters don't consider park factors. |
I think they might have a little last year. But it wont outweigh Wins, ERA, Ks by much... Webb has alot of catching up to do. It doesnt really matter - these awards are pretty meaningless IMO.
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shoewizard
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 9:31 am Post subject: |
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They are no meaningless at all my friend.
It's all about money, perception, etc.
You don't think Dontrelle stealing Webby's Cy Young in 2003 cost him some money, (and conversely saved the d backs money?)
If Webb wins back to back Cy Youngs, they have absolutely no choice but to rip up his contract and give him a new one.....or they will not have much of a chance to resign him when this one is done. Webb doesn't really care all that much, he is pretty content with his situation, but he DOES have an agent, who would be failing in his fiduciary responsibilities if he did not push very hard for a more lucrative extension. |
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Orlando Thill Hudson
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| shoewizard wrote: |
They are no meaningless at all my friend.
It's all about money, perception, etc.
You don't think Dontrelle stealing Webby's ROY in 2003 cost him some money, (and conversely saved the d backs money?)
If Webb wins back to back Cy Youngs, they have absolutely no choice but to rip up his contract and give him a new one.....or they will not have much of a chance to resign him when this one is done. Webb doesn't really care all that much, he is pretty content with his situation, but he DOES have an agent, who would be failing in his fiduciary responsibilities if he did not push very hard for a more lucrative extension. |
Fixed that for ya.
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qudjy1
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| shoewizard wrote: |
They are no meaningless at all my friend.
It's all about money, perception, etc.
You don't think Dontrelle stealing Webby's Cy Young in 2003 cost him some money, (and conversely saved the d backs money?)
If Webb wins back to back Cy Youngs, they have absolutely no choice but to rip up his contract and give him a new one.....or they will not have much of a chance to resign him when this one is done. Webb doesn't really care all that much, he is pretty content with his situation, but he DOES have an agent, who would be failing in his fiduciary responsibilities if he did not push very hard for a more lucrative extension. |
I dont disagree. I just dont get excited about arguing who is the winner of an award that frankly isnt judged very fairly. It is the reason why i dont like any sport with judges.
We should be rooting for Peavy to win it. HE is the one whos contract we want to be priced out of that market.
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Orlando Thill Hudson
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| qudjy1 wrote: |
| shoewizard wrote: |
They are no meaningless at all my friend.
It's all about money, perception, etc.
You don't think Dontrelle stealing Webby's Cy Young in 2003 cost him some money, (and conversely saved the d backs money?)
If Webb wins back to back Cy Youngs, they have absolutely no choice but to rip up his contract and give him a new one.....or they will not have much of a chance to resign him when this one is done. Webb doesn't really care all that much, he is pretty content with his situation, but he DOES have an agent, who would be failing in his fiduciary responsibilities if he did not push very hard for a more lucrative extension. |
I dont disagree. I just dont get excited about arguing who is the winner of an award that frankly isnt judged very fairly. It is the reason why i dont like any sport with judges.
We should be rooting for Peavy to win it. HE is the one whos contract we want to be priced out of that market.
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His contract is priced out regardless, IMO.
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qudjy1
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| Orlando Thill Hudson wrote: |
| His contract is priced out regardless, IMO. |
We dont know that. But his salary under his current contract does increase if he wins Cy Youngs.
It is good for Webb if he wins. Dont get me wrong, i would be happy for the guy - he is the kind of guy you root for. Just cant get too excited about it.
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TAP
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| shoewizard wrote: |
| Cy Young voters don't consider park factors. |
That would be giving their sophistication and knowledge of the game far too much credit.
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shoewizard
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| qudjy1 wrote: |
| shoewizard wrote: |
They are no meaningless at all my friend.
It's all about money, perception, etc.
You don't think Dontrelle stealing Webby's Cy Young in 2003 cost him some money, (and conversely saved the d backs money?)
If Webb wins back to back Cy Youngs, they have absolutely no choice but to rip up his contract and give him a new one.....or they will not have much of a chance to resign him when this one is done. Webb doesn't really care all that much, he is pretty content with his situation, but he DOES have an agent, who would be failing in his fiduciary responsibilities if he did not push very hard for a more lucrative extension. |
I dont disagree. I just dont get excited about arguing who is the winner of an award that frankly isnt judged very fairly. It is the reason why i dont like any sport with judges.
We should be rooting for Peavy to win it. HE is the one whos contract we want to be priced out of that market.
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Well, I have to admit, I enjoy the debate for the sake of the debate sometimes. (ok...all the time...lol) But when it comes to post season awards, I heavily enter the fray on message boards and e mail campaigns to voters at the various papers, because I believe it is the perfect opportunity to get people to look at other ways of valuing performance beyond the traditional, quaint , 19th century stats. How else are we going to make these things more fair if we don't take the opportunity to educate?
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moviegeekjn
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| shoewizard wrote: |
If Webb wins back to back Cy Youngs, they have absolutely no choice but to rip up his contract and give him a new one.....or they will not have much of a chance to resign him when this one is done. Webb doesn't really care all that much, he is pretty content with his situation, but he DOES have an agent, who would be failing in his fiduciary responsibilities if he did not push very hard for a more lucrative extension. |
What then...is the logic for campaigning for Webby to win what the media has essentially made to be a "beauty contest" when a "victory" ends up hurting the team?
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shoewizard
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| moviegeekjn wrote: |
| shoewizard wrote: |
If Webb wins back to back Cy Youngs, they have absolutely no choice but to rip up his contract and give him a new one.....or they will not have much of a chance to resign him when this one is done. Webb doesn't really care all that much, he is pretty content with his situation, but he DOES have an agent, who would be failing in his fiduciary responsibilities if he did not push very hard for a more lucrative extension. |
What then...is the logic for campaigning for Webby to win what the media has essentially made to be a "beauty contest" when a "victory" ends up hurting the team?
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Ah...I knew that was coming...
Making sure they keep Webb around beyond the term of his current deal is helping, not hurting the team. By winning another Cy, he would be forcing the issue. It's not my fault Moorad gave all that money to Eric Byrnes, making a Webb extension more difficult.
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TAP
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Joined: 10 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| shoewizard wrote: |
| It's not my fault Moorad gave all that money to Eric Byrnes, making a Webb extension more difficult. |
You will be asking Jeff about that today, since I'll be working and not able to attend -- yes?
And while you're at it, I think it's important to hear from Jeff directly (don't let him wiggle out of an answer) about how his taking over the EB negotiations directly affects JB's ability to perform his job at the same high level that he had been performing previously. Players and their agents now know they can go directly to Jeff if they don't like what Josh is offering, essentially neutering Josh's negotiating skill.
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David B
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| shoewizard wrote: |
| Cy Young voters don't consider park factors. |
I think the voters consider park factors in only the most basic, neandrethal terms. They see the extremes--Coors good for hitters, Petco good for pitchers. In that respect, Peavy's performance may be weighed somewhat.
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matt
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Posts: 3657
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| shoewizard wrote: |
| If Webb wins back to back Cy Youngs, they have absolutely no choice but to rip up his contract and give him a new one.....or they will not have much of a chance to resign him when this one is done. Webb doesn't really care all that much, he is pretty content with his situation, but he DOES have an agent, who would be failing in his fiduciary responsibilities if he did not push very hard for a more lucrative extension. |
I think he cares more than he lets on. He was interviewed by the morning guys on 620 a few months back and when they brought up the idea of a home town discount he dodged it really quickly.
Whether or not he wins the CYA this year they need to go to him at the end of the season with an extension. I have no idea how much or how long but on the open market he's worth $20M easily. Maybe you start at 5/$75 but since Zambrano just got 5/$91 it might not be enough.
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shoewizard
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| I think he cares more than he lets on. He was interviewed by the morning guys on 620 a few months back and when they brought up the idea of a home town discount he dodged it really quickly. |
Did he DODGE the question, or DASH any hopes of giving a HTD
(HTD= Home town discount...a phrase we better get used to)
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matt
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:43 am Post subject: |
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I don't remember it was months ago! 
Either way I agree that they need to get it going quick. Don't wait to exercise the option. Yes he agreed to it but it is less than half of what he should get that year. |
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