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 Post subject: Re: Miguel Montero
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:23 pm 
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Not a knock on Montero at all. He's definitely the team MVP if Upton isn't putting up a 7-WAR season.

This has been a tremendous year for MM. His defense, which was my primary concern, has improved drastically, even if he does have the 11 E's and 10 WP/PB's. The majority of E's were early in the year, he seems much more comfortable and refined behind the plate/framing pitches, and his caught stealing rate is nearly 40%. Also gotta love that he's bilingual, which surely helps when catching english-only speaking pitchers. I can't imagine there being much more that the coaches have asked of him that he hasn't done. And the offense speaks for itself.

Also, it doesn't appear that he has any sense of entitlement regarding playing time or salary. Previous players seemed a bit too aware of the money side of things and needed "security", but MM seems to be really level-headed and focused on what matters - baseball.

After having to watch every other position player get extensions and "security", I'm glad Montero put up such a good season right before arbitration. He deserves, and has earned, the raise coming his way.

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 Post subject: Re: Miguel Montero
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:01 pm 
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matt wrote:
shoewizard wrote:
One could argue that Montero is the team MVP this year.


It's really close. He's certainly an unsung hero of the team.


You can call him an unsung hero but it's not "really close."


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 Post subject: Re: Miguel Montero
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:12 pm 
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I'd argue that what you lose in offense is nearly made up by the responsibilities of carrying the catching staff.

Blanco has been a great backup catcher also. Overall 25 HR and 94 RBI from the catchers.


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 Post subject: Re: Miguel Montero
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:51 pm 
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Well.....

Catcher is the most important defensive position on the field, and trumps RF by miles in that regard, and Montero has had a very good defensive season.

It's also hard to get offense from the position, and he is among the best 2 hitting catchers in the NL.
Brian McCann 126 OPS+, Montero 125 OPS+

And if you want to talk WAR, in bb-reference WAR, Montero has more WAR than Upton, 4.7 to 4.4.

In FG War, Montero has the highest WAR total of any NL catcher, better than McCann. And Upton's defensive rating in UZR should be balanced against the ratings he's getting in other metrics........I think he's above average for sure, due to his range, but I don't think he saves more runs than almost any other player in the game. !

And over the last month, the month of September, a CATCHER who has played more games than any other catcher, had his best month to help seal the division. Meanwhile Justin has decided he's only going to hit in home games.


See.....it wasn't all that hard to make a case that it's closer than most people realize. It's a bit myopic to dismiss the thought out of hand. It's really closer than you think.

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 Post subject: Re: Miguel Montero
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:42 pm 
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shoewizard wrote:
Well.....

Catcher is the most important defensive position on the field, and trumps RF by miles in that regard, and Montero has had a very good defensive season.

It's also hard to get offense from the position, and he is among the best 2 hitting catchers in the NL.
Brian McCann 126 OPS+, Montero 125 OPS+

And if you want to talk WAR, in bb-reference WAR, Montero has more WAR than Upton, 4.7 to 4.4.

In FG War, Montero has the highest WAR total of any NL catcher, better than McCann. And Upton's defensive rating in UZR should be balanced against the ratings he's getting in other metrics........I think he's above average for sure, due to his range, but I don't think he saves more runs than almost any other player in the game. !

And over the last month, the month of September, a CATCHER who has played more games than any other catcher, had his best month to help seal the division. Meanwhile Justin has decided he's only going to hit in home games.


See.....it wasn't all that hard to make a case that it's closer than most people realize. It's a bit myopic to dismiss the thought out of hand. It's really closer than you think.


Before Upton's recent slide (when his OPS+ went from 151 to 145), I thought he deserved to be the NL MVP. He does literally everything on a baseball field.


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 Post subject: Re: Miguel Montero
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:23 pm 
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While I was totally into the concept of Justin winning the MVP, (I even started some MVP chants when I was at Chase earlier this this month !!), that was the fanboy in me. The analyst in me knows there are a few candidates probably more deserving. But he was pretty close before recent slide. But slides in September during a heated division race are not the stuff that MVP seasons are made of.

Just as well. If the team wants to try to extend him again beyond current deal, they'll have a better chance without a marginal MVP Plaque hanging above his fireplace.

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 Post subject: Re: Miguel Montero
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:07 am 
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The last 3 weeks certainly have narrowed the gap to the point that Montero is in the conversation.

By baseballreference's measure, Upton is leading Montero in oWAR by about 30% (5.1-3.8)

As for the dWAR/UZR's, who knows. FG thinks JU10 is awesome, BBRef has him below average (BBRef also has Mike Stanton #1 in dWAR, CY24 #2...)

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 Post subject: Re: Miguel Montero
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:04 am 
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shoewizard wrote:
Just as well. If the team wants to try to extend him again beyond current deal, they'll have a better chance without a marginal MVP Plaque hanging above his fireplace.

So he's only going to be a 3-time MVP at the conclusion of his current deal instead of 4-time MVP? ;)


What to do about MM, though? Some of those comps for recently signed AL catchers are terrifying.

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 Post subject: Re: Miguel Montero
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:44 pm 
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I'd buy out next year and give two year extension. I really wouldn't want to go past that.

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 Post subject: Re: Miguel Montero
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:31 pm 
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But would MM want to do that? I think he's rollin the dice on staying healthy and producing next yr, goin to FA entering his age 29 season. Sounds better than selling off his first 2 yrs of FA at a discount and then attempting to pick up another contract as a C on the wrong side of 30.

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 Post subject: Re: Miguel Montero
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:17 am 
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Im not sure I read this right but if you scroll down near the bottom a graph shows Miggy the 5th best defensive catcher in baseball this year.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/artic ... -the-dust/


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 Post subject: Re: Miguel Montero
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:09 pm 
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I wouldn't be surprised; he had a really strong year in the field. A lot of perceptions were formed during the early-season struggles, but he was sound for the bulk of the year.

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Last edited by dirtygary on Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Miguel Montero
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:18 pm 
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dirtygary wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised; he had a really strong year in the field. A lot of perceptions were formed during the early-season struggles, but was sound for the bulk of the year.

Night and day difference from his start to the season and what he became for the majority of the season.

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 Post subject: Re: Miguel Montero
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:33 pm 
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Per Nick:

Extension Talks with Miggy Stalled


MILWAUKEE - When it comes to a long-term contract, interest is mutual between the Diamondbacks and catcher Miguel Montero. The question seems to be about the length of the term.

General Manager Kevin Towers said he has spoken with Montero this off-season about a contract extension, but talks are at a standstill because Montero is seeking more guaranteed years than the Diamondbacks are comfortable offering........

Considering the scarcity of good-hitting catchers, he could command a sizeable deal on the open market a year from now - assuming, of course, he turns in another strong year in 2012. By comparison, Victor Martinez received a four-year, $50 million deal from the Detroit Tigers last off-season.

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Good depth often has to come from within, in the form of younger talent. Depth is hard to build overnight, but it’s easy to deplete. Jeff Sullivan


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 Post subject: Re: Miguel Montero
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:47 am 
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Not surprised the extension talks stalled. The Club was probably trying to buy the initial 2 FA years for $10M/yr, but that's a lot less guaranteed dollars and it pushes his FA back to age 31 season. He would have to make it through the next 3 seasons un-injured to collect the big FA deal. Miggie should just play it out here, go to FA, and collect the 4yr/$40M BOS or some other big market club will offer. And good for him. He's been great here and deserves the stability that kind of contract provides.

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 Post subject: Re: Miguel Montero
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:53 am 
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Saunders for Austin Romine.


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 Post subject: Re: Miguel Montero
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:56 am 
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Montero shouldn't settle for anything less than 4 years.


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 Post subject: Re: Miguel Montero
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:09 am 
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While I don't think he should settle for less than what he thinks he deserves, a lot can happen in a year and having the extra security of a 3 year contract can be a good thing, especially when you play a position with the potential for injury that catching has.

Maybe he should ask O-Dawg about the benefits of taking an extension when it is being offered vs waiting for free agency.

Miggy had a career year last year. Will he have another one this year?


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 Post subject: Re: Miguel Montero
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:23 pm 
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With the dearth of quality catchers out there, I think supply and demand would tip in the favor of someone overpaying (in years and $$) for Montero.


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 Post subject: Re: Miguel Montero
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:41 pm 
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Will be interesting to see how the new CBA plays out in regards to free agent compensation, Miggy will no doubt be what we know now as a Type A after this season. Expecting this club to contend again, there's no way you'd be able to trade Montero during the season, would have to just offer him arb and let him walk and collect picks.


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