Register    Login    Forum    Search    FAQ

Board index » AZ Diamondbacks » Team News




 Page 4 of 5 [ 86 posts ] Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next



Author Message
 Post subject: Re: 2018 Payroll
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:29 pm
Posts: 7687
Location: Tucson
Strebor wrote:
They've positioned themselves to repeat their favorite cycle: Single fluke playoff appearance -> .500ish team -> total collapse

It took an incredible run from Martinez and a best-case scenario with the rotation last year just to sneak into the playoffs by one game. I don't expect that they'll be able to go 12-7 against the Giants again next year, much less have a winning record against every team in the division.



6 games up on the Rockies and 7 on the Brewers. Losing the WC game (Rockies) is still making the playoffs.

_________________
Per Mare, Per Terras


Top 
 Post subject: Re: 2018 Payroll
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:58 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:29 pm
Posts: 3567
Location: Katy, TX
Justin wrote:
Strebor wrote:
They've positioned themselves to repeat their favorite cycle: Single fluke playoff appearance -> .500ish team -> total collapse

It took an incredible run from Martinez and a best-case scenario with the rotation last year just to sneak into the playoffs by one game. I don't expect that they'll be able to go 12-7 against the Giants again next year, much less have a winning record against every team in the division.



6 games up on the Rockies and 7 on the Brewers. Losing the WC game (Rockies) is still making the playoffs.

That detail doesn't diminish from the broader point. We've seen this cycle before. Unless you believe the dbax are poised for a run of consecutive playoff appearances? Let's not forget, we've had two presidential elections since a team not named the Dodgers won the NL West. Quite frankly, I'm not excited for another 12yrs under this FrontOffice like the last 12yrs they've produced.

_________________
Vin Scully.


Top 
 Post subject: Re: 2018 Payroll
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:07 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:29 pm
Posts: 3567
Location: Katy, TX
The sad fact is this FO only excels at conjuring scapegoats to distract attention from their own inadequacies. If it isn't an inconvenient training location, it's players that aren't recovering from catastrophic leg injuries quick enough or a stadium that's too big.

It doesn't take a giant payroll to consistently compete. But it does take savvy and fortitude.

_________________
Vin Scully.


Top 
 Post subject: Re: 2018 Payroll
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:29 pm
Posts: 7687
Location: Tucson
dirtygary wrote:
Justin wrote:
Strebor wrote:
They've positioned themselves to repeat their favorite cycle: Single fluke playoff appearance -> .500ish team -> total collapse

It took an incredible run from Martinez and a best-case scenario with the rotation last year just to sneak into the playoffs by one game. I don't expect that they'll be able to go 12-7 against the Giants again next year, much less have a winning record against every team in the division.



6 games up on the Rockies and 7 on the Brewers. Losing the WC game (Rockies) is still making the playoffs.

That detail doesn't diminish from the broader point. We've seen this cycle before. Unless you believe the dbax are poised for a run of consecutive playoff appearances? Let's not forget, we've had two presidential elections since a team not named the Dodgers won the NL West. Quite frankly, I'm not excited for another 12yrs under this FrontOffice like the last 12yrs they've produced.



Ok, I see the point. Thanks.

_________________
Per Mare, Per Terras


Top 
 Post subject: Re: 2018 Payroll
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:29 pm
Posts: 3567
Location: Katy, TX
Interesting take on the dbax season. The last part of the "Disappointments" section really nails it.

4. Arizona Diamondbacks

Successes: Won 24 more games than they did in 2016, and won the wild card game to reach the NLDS for the first time since 2011. A rotation that began the season with Zack Greinke in decline and four question marks behind him ended up being the best in the National League, with Robbie Ray emerging as something like an ace. J.D. Martinez was the best trade deadline rental since ... CC Sabathia in 2008? Randy Johnson in 1998?

Disappointments: Trailed in all but three innings of the NLDS, a preview of what's probably to come for the Diamondbacks -- nice seasons stomped on by their $250 million payroll division rivals.

Good season? Good season!

_________________
Vin Scully.


Top 
 Post subject: Re: 2018 Payroll
 Post Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:27 pm
Posts: 12071
MLB Sets Record For Revenues In 2017, Increasing More Than $500 Million Since 2015

National Broadcast Revenue, Revenue from Gear Sales, (Jersey's, hats, etc) and MLB Adavanced Media, etc etc, are all equally shared. among all 30 franchises.

The Diamondbacks are also recipients of luxury tax revenue sharing.

And of course they signed the new deal with FSAZ, which while probably increasing slowly, certainly saw their TV revenue increase from 31M before the new deal went into effect in 2016, to at least 40-45M per year in the early years of the new deal.

The propaganda that the team "can't afford" to have a more competitive salary structure is even more exposed as a falsehood.

Keep in mind that the purchase price in 2004 when principle ownership changed hands was 238 M. As of April 2017 Forbes estimated Franchise value at 1.150 Billion. So the value of the franchise has increased 900M.

Revenue in 2016 was 253 M, and operating income was over 47 M, (Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization.)

So they could have afforded to go at least 10M-20M higher in payroll last year, and likely this year as well. I'm not saying they should plunge the franchise into massive debt to try to win now. Far from it. But clearly they have more room to increase payroll and their competitiveness, if that were a priority.

other data points, please do click through to help see the picture more clearly.

Player expenses since 2001

Revenue since 2001

These two charts clearly do not match.

Gate Receipts since 2009

So he is what you can learn looking at these charts,

A) gate receipts have not increased, fluctuating between 40-45M over the last 7 years.

B) Overall revenue however has climbed every year since 2009 increasing from 172M in 2009 to 253 M in 2016.

So even though gate receipts have not increased, gate receipts as percentage of revenue has decreased from roughly 1/4 to 1/6.

This is thanks to MLBAM and other league wide, equally shared revenue streams.

C) Despite this large increase , player expenses* have remained largely static since 2008 (108M) to 2016 (111M), with a dip in 2011 (86M) and a bump in 2014. (125M)

*Note player expenses generally higher than the payroll numbers we often see published, as includes things like Health Insurance, or other misc. items.

Just keep all this in mind as they continue to have a self imposed salary cap in the 105M-110M vicinity.

Doesn't add up for us fans hoping to see the most competitive team possible on the field. But it's adding up to massive profits for ownership, both on annual income and especially in franchise value, that much is clear.

_________________
It's time for ownership to stop pretending they can't afford substantial payroll increases from recent levels. They absolutely can
viewtopic.php?p=244425#p244425


Top 
 Post subject: Re: 2018 Payroll
 Post Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 10:59 am
Posts: 427
I think the decline of gate receipts as a proportion of team revenue is telling. The actual in-stadium product is less important than ever, which is why ownership doesn't make winning a priority. Why spend an extra $20 million on payroll when there is zero guarantee that it will result in at least $20 million of additional revenue? They're basically using a less obvious version of the Loria model. If the welfare checks from MLB disappeared, Kendrick would have the team for sale the next day.


Top 
 Post subject: Re: 2018 Payroll
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:27 pm
Posts: 12071
Very good point

_________________
It's time for ownership to stop pretending they can't afford substantial payroll increases from recent levels. They absolutely can
viewtopic.php?p=244425#p244425


Top 
 Post subject: Re: 2018 Payroll
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:29 pm
Posts: 3567
Location: Katy, TX
The gate is only as important as it effects the atmosphere of the television programming. I'd much rather watch a game with a full and enthusiastic stadium.

We've been on this path for quite some time, and it isn't exclusive to baseball. Look at all the inconvenient college kickoff/tipoff times.

They aren't spectator sports anymore. They're TV shows filmed in front of a live stadium audience.

_________________
Vin Scully.


Top 
 Post subject: Re: 2018 Payroll
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:09 pm
Posts: 1512
And unless that changes, eventually they will become less lucrative, and the welfare contributors will rebel to save their own skins. They need all of the teams to succeed in the mass market place, but there is a limit to what profitable owners will tolerate with their competitors milking the system.

_________________
There's no success like failure
And failure's no success at all


Top 
 Post subject: Re: 2018 Payroll
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:27 pm
Posts: 12071
Lets not misunderstand. The Luxury Tax distributions the D Backs might get are not the dominant factor in the non gate receipts income. It's MLBAM, gear sales, and National TV revenues, which are shared equally, that is driving this. Thats not welfare.

The Welfare, i.e. luxury tax distributions, are not driving the D Backs revenue surge.

_________________
It's time for ownership to stop pretending they can't afford substantial payroll increases from recent levels. They absolutely can
viewtopic.php?p=244425#p244425


Top 
 Post subject: Re: 2018 Payroll
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:43 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 10:59 am
Posts: 427
shoewizard wrote:
Lets not misunderstand. The Luxury Tax distributions the D Backs might get are not the dominant factor in the non gate receipts income. It's MLBAM, gear sales, and National TV revenues, which are shared equally, that is driving this. Thats not welfare.

The Welfare, i.e. luxury tax distributions, are not driving the D Backs revenue surge.

Those income streams are designed as equal disbursements so the smaller markets keep their mouths shut about the structural financial disparities. Teams like the D-backs don't "deserve" an equal cut of gear sales or national TV revenues based on the amount of sales they drive. MLBAM being split equally makes a certain amount of sense because it was started with equal contributions from all owners. The current owners of the Dodgers and Yankees did absolutely nothing to grow the populations of Los Angeles and New York City or build the baseball fanbases in those cities, but the CBA allows them to parlay their local media markets into an ongoing competitive advantage. Greinke's 2016 salary was something like 13% of Arizona's revenue that year and would've only been ~7% of L.A.'s. The Yankees haven't had a losing record since 1992. The last time "they" lost 100 games was in 1912 when they were called the Highlanders.

I think it's absolutely fair to look at those central fund checks as welfare. If not for the free money, 2/3 of the owners would probably band together to demand a more level playing field. MLB is a cartel that disproportionately benefits the people at the top - it's just smart enough to make sure that the people at the bottom are satisfied enough not to upset the apple cart.


Top 
 Post subject: Re: 2018 Payroll
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:53 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:27 pm
Posts: 12071
Strebor wrote:
shoewizard wrote:
Lets not misunderstand. The Luxury Tax distributions the D Backs might get are not the dominant factor in the non gate receipts income. It's MLBAM, gear sales, and National TV revenues, which are shared equally, that is driving this. Thats not welfare.

The Welfare, i.e. luxury tax distributions, are not driving the D Backs revenue surge.

Those income streams are designed as equal disbursements so the smaller markets keep their mouths shut about the structural financial disparities. Teams like the D-backs don't "deserve" an equal cut of gear sales or national TV revenues based on the amount of sales they drive. MLBAM being split equally makes a certain amount of sense because it was started with equal contributions from all owners. The current owners of the Dodgers and Yankees did absolutely nothing to grow the populations of Los Angeles and New York City or build the baseball fanbases in those cities, but the CBA allows them to parlay their local media markets into an ongoing competitive advantage. Greinke's 2016 salary was something like 13% of Arizona's revenue that year and would've only been ~7% of L.A.'s. The Yankees haven't had a losing record since 1992. The last time "they" lost 100 games was in 1912 when they were called the Highlanders.

I think it's absolutely fair to look at those central fund checks as welfare. If not for the free money, 2/3 of the owners would probably band together to demand a more level playing field. MLB is a cartel that disproportionately benefits the people at the top - it's just smart enough to make sure that the people at the bottom are satisfied enough not to upset the apple cart.


You don't have a league without the teams from smaller markets. It's not welfare because in order to have a viable league in the first place, you need to have at least a semblance of competitive balance. If you don't share equally what is designated as "league revenues", you don't have a league. Period.

_________________
It's time for ownership to stop pretending they can't afford substantial payroll increases from recent levels. They absolutely can
viewtopic.php?p=244425#p244425


Top 
 Post subject: Re: 2018 Payroll
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 10:59 am
Posts: 427
shoewizard wrote:
You don't have a league without the teams from smaller markets. It's not welfare because in order to have a viable league in the first place, you need to have at least a semblance of competitive balance. If you don't share equally what is designated as "league revenues", you don't have a league. Period.

Revenue sharing has only been around since the mid-90s.

If it wasn't clear, I don't think revenue sharing or other competitive balance measures go far enough. The current system doesn't create anything close to a level playing field between franchises. In fact, it creates perverse incentives for people like Kendrick and Loria where their smartest move is to punch below their weight class on payroll from a purely fiscal perspective. This system exists to make sure that the Bostons and Chicagos are in the playoffs most of the time, first and foremost. It accomplishes that goal by paying off the owners of the smaller markets.

The Yankees can spend $200 million on payroll because their market has enough headroom to provide additional revenue for the team. That's not the case for teams like the D-backs. The D-backs could win 110 games and the World Series every season for the next five years and they still wouldn't pull in as much revenue as the Yankees. This advantage is even more entrenched with all of the long-term television contracts.


Top 
 Post subject: Re: 2018 Payroll
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:27 am
Posts: 2271
Location: Portland, OR
Very seldom has there been true competitive balance in baseball history. There's always been the Yankees and Dodgers on one end, and teams like the Athletics, Senators and Phillies on the other.

Btw, was looking at attendance records throughout baseball history. In 1956 the Yankees averaged 19,000 fans a game (second to the Braves), the Cubs 9,000 (next to last). Even in the 60s, the 64 Yankees averaged 16,000, and 8 teams averaged less than 10,000. Attendance did not really start to climb until the late 70s.


Top 
 Post subject: Re: 2018 Payroll
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:58 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:29 pm
Posts: 3567
Location: Katy, TX
David B wrote:
Btw, was looking at attendance records throughout baseball history. In 1956 the Yankees averaged 19,000 fans a game (second to the Braves), the Cubs 9,000 (next to last). Even in the 60s, the 64 Yankees averaged 16,000, and 8 teams averaged less than 10,000. Attendance did not really start to climb until the late 70s.

Shift to more night games?

I only remember from the mid-'80's, but I recall stadiums still being relatively empty until two things happened: Camden Yards and the ballpark "renaissance", and the McGwire/Sosa/HR barrage. Until that point, attendance figures were sparse, ticket prices were low, and you could responsibly attend as many games as you wanted to. But the same $12 seats at Fenway in 1993 are now $142, season ticket price for a pair of good tickets went from $2k to $23k. Rising prices are understandable and that same seat 25yrs prior was probably $2, but it still feels like attending live sports events absorbs a much greater share of the discretionary budget now than it used to. Combine that with the rapidly improving and cost-effective home viewing experience, inconvenient start times, and deteriorating live product, and it appears as though attendance figures across most sports are on a structural descent.

_________________
Vin Scully.


Top 
 Post subject: Re: 2018 Payroll
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:47 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:24 pm
Posts: 12138
Arizona has 15 players eligible for arbitration and has until 6 p.m. MST tonight to tender them contracts. If not, the players become free agents.

The D-backs' group is the largest of arbitration-eligible players in the Majors, with the Red Sox second at 13.

Details from Steve Gilbert HERE.

_________________
"It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. How much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!"
- Rocky Balboa on the 2017 Arizona Diamondbacks, those comeback kids


Top 
 Post subject: Re: 2018 Payroll
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:21 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:27 pm
Posts: 12071
Twitter Poll on opening day payroll

_________________
It's time for ownership to stop pretending they can't afford substantial payroll increases from recent levels. They absolutely can
viewtopic.php?p=244425#p244425


Top 
 Post subject: Re: 2018 Payroll
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:27 pm
Posts: 12071
D Backs sign TJ McFarland to a one year deal, 850K, with 350K in incentives, so potentially 1.2M

Nick Piecoro

I don't think he's very good.

Over the last 3 years he has 119 IP, an 81 ER+, 5.52 ERA, 4.54 FIP, 1.64 WHIP

Batting line against .304/.369/.442

SPlit 2015-2017

vs LHB .252/.303/.350 220 Batters Faced
vs RHB .340/.414/.509 341 Batters Faced

And Just 20017

vs LHB .210/.256/.292 80 Batters Faced
vs RHB .336/.398/.462 161 Batters Faced

So one thing is obvious. He needs to be far more limited in how many righties he is allowed to face. Basically if they use him a strict loogy and flip those percentages of batters faced, he could help and not hurt as much. But thats easier said than done. Best case is they get his left handed batters faced to around 50-55%.

If Lovullo lets him face Right Handed Batters more often than 50% of the time, I'm going to bitching quite a bit.

_________________
It's time for ownership to stop pretending they can't afford substantial payroll increases from recent levels. They absolutely can
viewtopic.php?p=244425#p244425


Top 
 Post subject: Re: 2018 Payroll
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:27 pm
Posts: 12071
Good rundown from Steve Gilbert

_________________
It's time for ownership to stop pretending they can't afford substantial payroll increases from recent levels. They absolutely can
viewtopic.php?p=244425#p244425


Top 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
 Page 4 of 5 [ 86 posts ] Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next




Board index » AZ Diamondbacks » Team News


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: