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 Post subject: Re: The Chase experience and attendance
 Post Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:52 pm 
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The NFL priced a lot of families out a long time ago and they certainly haven't dropped their prices. MLB's issues are not necessarily so $$-related, but it's surely a factor. They're going to have to find ways to market to young people or will have to accept the declining interest as the new normal. So far, their attempts to shorten game times have been half-hearted. That would be a great way to show people they want them coming to more games, but it's not happening yet.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chase experience and attendance
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:05 pm 
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The Shadow wrote:
Taken from todays Boston Globe. Fan safety has always been a D. Hall concern.

The Arizona Diamondbacks don’t want to talk about it, but they extended the netting at Chase Field last season on their own to better protect fans.

Why don’t they want to discuss it? Probably not to rub it in as other teams await an edict from Major League Baseball to do so.

At the start of the 2014 season, the Diamondbacks extended their netting, which is 30 feet high, from 73 to 150 feet in length.

In light of the awful incident at Fenway involving Tonya Carpenter, who suffered life-threatening injuries when hit by a broken bat June 5, there have been a lot of suggestions regarding how to better protect fans.

In 2008, brothers Philip and Stephen Rauso developed a tape that contains bat fractures but doesn’t affect the performance of the bat. It was tested at MLB’s research facility at UMass-Lowell and tested well. But it was never put to use by MLB.

The tape was clear and testing against velocities of more than 125 miles per hour showed bat fractures were contained.

Also, David R. Zavagno, president of University Medical Systems in Cleveland, recently wrote, “A 15-second image set acquired from a CT scanner may have averted a serious injury recently incurred by a fan attending a Red Sox game on June 5. The same life-saving technology used in thousands of hospitals producing millions of images per year is easily adaptable to scanning both production or current use baseball bats.

“The long history of both fan and player injuries due to shattering bats has created an immediate need to establish upgraded testing protocols and wood content standards using X-ray technologies. There is highly effective X-ray/CT technology available to characterize the wood quality of major league baseball bats to detect flaws or defects after construction and during the season.”


The Diamondbacks did the right thing in extending the netting. Today the Yankees wish they had done the same:
http://nypost.com/2017/09/20/yankees-re ... foul-ball/

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 Post subject: Re: The Chase experience and attendance
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:30 pm 
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They extended the netting in Citi Field all the way down the line to the point where the stands jut out. (So over the dugouts and past the dugouts.

D Backs should do the same. You can still get seriously injured if you are sitting behind the dugout in even in the corners of left and right field.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chase experience and attendance
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:11 pm 
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TAP wrote:
The Diamondbacks did the right thing in extending the netting. Today the Yankees wish they had done the same:
http://nypost.com/2017/09/20/yankees-re ... foul-ball/

I refuse to sit in those line drive sections at any ballpark. Even if you have a perfect read of the ball off the bat, you may not be able to dodge the ball. It's one thing if adults want to take that risk, but kids shouldn't be allowed there without protective nets.


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 Post subject: Re: The Chase experience and attendance
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:29 am 
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shoewizard wrote:
They extended the netting in Citi Field all the way down the line to the point where the stands jut out. (So over the dugouts and past the dugouts.

D Backs should do the same. You can still get seriously injured if you are sitting behind the dugout in even in the corners of left and right field.

Strebor wrote:
TAP wrote:
The Diamondbacks did the right thing in extending the netting. Today the Yankees wish they had done the same:
http://nypost.com/2017/09/20/yankees-re ... foul-ball/

I refuse to sit in those line drive sections at any ballpark. Even if you have a perfect read of the ball off the bat, you may not be able to dodge the ball. It's one thing if adults want to take that risk, but kids shouldn't be allowed there without protective nets.

x2 to all of this. This is long overdue. Just putting "Beware of flying objects" signs doesn't absolve the club of negligence.

Maybe it's always been this way and I'm just noticing it, but it definitely feels like there are many more "sitting ducks" unable to defend themselves in the stands than 20+yrs ago. I'm a fairly coordinated/athletic adult, played sports my entire life, and even I'm struggling to keep up with the flight track of the ball on those line-drive fouls.

I was at a Dbax game a few years ago, near the back of lower level behind home, towards 3rdBase, looking down the home/1stBaseline, but just to the outside of the net. I identified that as something to monitor as soon as I sat down, and wouldn't you know around the 7th inning a foul ball came screaming back. I was a couple beers in and engaged in conversation with friend, eyes off the plate, when out of nowhere he says "this is you!" and gets up like a foul ball is headed our way. I look up and see a line drive foul ball already on its way and heading straight at me. I didn't spaz and throw my hands up to block it, just tried to "ole-it" off to my right hip pocket, but the ball got between my hands. My first thought was "oh god, the lady behind me is dead", but she dove out of the way and the ball thumped/cracked against her seat-back. Nobody was hurt, but those screaming line drive foul balls happen so often that it's a miracle there isn't a tragedy every game.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chase experience and attendance
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:02 am 
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dirtygary wrote:
shoewizard wrote:
They extended the netting in Citi Field all the way down the line to the point where the stands jut out. (So over the dugouts and past the dugouts.

D Backs should do the same. You can still get seriously injured if you are sitting behind the dugout in even in the corners of left and right field.

Strebor wrote:
TAP wrote:
The Diamondbacks did the right thing in extending the netting. Today the Yankees wish they had done the same:
http://nypost.com/2017/09/20/yankees-re ... foul-ball/

I refuse to sit in those line drive sections at any ballpark. Even if you have a perfect read of the ball off the bat, you may not be able to dodge the ball. It's one thing if adults want to take that risk, but kids shouldn't be allowed there without protective nets.

x2 to all of this. This is long overdue. Just putting "Beware of flying objects" signs doesn't absolve the club of negligence.

Maybe it's always been this way and I'm just noticing it, but it definitely feels like there are many more "sitting ducks" unable to defend themselves in the stands than 20+yrs ago. I'm a fairly coordinated/athletic adult, played sports my entire life, and even I'm struggling to keep up with the flight track of the ball on those line-drive fouls.

I was at a Dbax game a few years ago, near the back of lower level behind home, towards 3rdBase, looking down the home/1stBaseline, but just to the outside of the net. I identified that as something to monitor as soon as I sat down, and wouldn't you know around the 7th inning a foul ball came screaming back. I was a couple beers in and engaged in conversation with friend, eyes off the plate, when out of nowhere he says "this is you!" and gets up like a foul ball is headed our way. I look up and see a line drive foul ball already on its way and heading straight at me. I didn't spaz and throw my hands up to block it, just tried to "ole-it" off to my right hip pocket, but the ball got between my hands. My first thought was "oh god, the lady behind me is dead", but she dove out of the way and the ball thumped/cracked against her seat-back. Nobody was hurt, but those screaming line drive foul balls happen so often that it's a miracle there isn't a tragedy every game.


According to a report from Bloomberg, cited in this article in 2014 there were 1,750 injuries from projectiles heading into the stands.

Numbers might be down some since then as more and more teams extend netting.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chase experience and attendance
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:08 pm 
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A man who was blinded in one eye by a foul ball during a game at Wrigley Field is suing Major League Baseball and the Chicago Cubs.

"I am trying to protect others from going through what I and my family are going through," John Loos said at a news conference in Chicago on Monday.

At Wrigley Field, safety netting does not extend to the far ends of the dugout.

http://www.azfamily.com/story/36566703/ ... in-one-eye

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 Post subject: Re: The Chase experience and attendance
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:28 am 
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I've been amazed for years at the sight of children under the age of 12 sitting with adults in the lower levels down each foul line, and even worse parents with infants and toddlers sitting in those areas. I've always purchased tickets in the first few rows of the upper deck to give myself a fighting chance of getting out of the way should a foul ball come my way. At AFL games, where I've had the choice of sitting anywhere, I always tried to sit behind the screen.


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 Post subject: Re: The Chase experience and attendance
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:03 pm 
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The final attendance numbers were up, 98,000 fans, or about 1,200 per game more. Seems like it should have been up more. Rockies fans kicked our asses in getting behind their team. Then again they always do, despite LESS success as an organization than we've had.

Their attendance was up 351,000 fans, or 4300+ per game. They averaged 36k Per game compated to 32K per game last year.

D Backs averaged 26K this year after averaging 25K last year.

Really our fan base kinda sucks. It's been 20 years. No excuse for this.

table link

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trading young number one over all talent for back end of the rotation talent was fundamentally irresponsible. BFDD


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 Post subject: Re: The Chase experience and attendance
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:53 pm 
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I've been to my fair share of Giants games this season, and I was amazed at the turnout for those games. I mean, part of it is tech workers/city types going to a ball game because it's cheap and convenient, but the die-hards were out there still cheering on a team that was brutal to watch this year.

No real point to this post other than to say, I agree, D'backs fanbase needs to get out to games more.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chase experience and attendance
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:37 pm 
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shoewizard wrote:
The final attendance numbers were up, 98,000 fans, or about 1,200 per game more. Seems like it should have been up more. Rockies fans kicked our asses in getting behind their team. Then again they always do, despite LESS success as an organization than we've had.

Their attendance was up 351,000 fans, or 4300+ per game. They averaged 36k Per game compated to 32K per game last year.

D Backs averaged 26K this year after averaging 25K last year.

Really our fan base kinda sucks. It's been 20 years. No excuse for this.

table link

The D-backs have spent the last 18 months telling the world that their ballpark is an obsolete death trap and suing their fans. They've put a playoff team on the field three times in the last 15 years. They've put a team with 82 or fewer wins on the field 11 times in the last 15 years. They've put five teams on the field that have won 70 or fewer games in the last 15 years. They've made it to the NLCS one time in the last 15 years. That was more than a decade ago and they were swept. This is their first winning season since 2011.

The product's been garbage more often than not and it's been flat-out awful more often than it's been good. They've eliminated dollar tickets and jacked up prices in the lower bowl around home plate. They've removed their games from broadcast TV. They're in the 12th largest media market and consistently have a payroll ranked in the 20s.

Local governments have put a light rail on their doorstep and increased the population of full-time downtown residents. Dozens of new consumer-facing businesses have opened downtown in the last 10 years - even the fucking hot dog stands by Superior Court have expanded. Somehow, though, the D-backs are still drawing roughly the same number of fans they were back in 2005.

This isn't on the fans at all. This organization has been run like garbage for a long time. If it wasn't for the free money raining down on them due to the TV deal, MLBAM, and revenue sharing (read: things that would've happened if they had a sack of nickels in the CEO's chair for the last decade), they'd probably be bankrupt.

The D-backs aren't entitled to an active fanbase just because they exist. If they put a winning team on the field three of the next four years with a couple of playoff appearances and are still only drawing 26k a game, then we can talk about the fanbase here.


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 Post subject: Re: The Chase experience and attendance
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:43 pm 
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We've won more games, more divisions, and made playoffs more often than the Rockies.

Our tickets are cheaper than the Rockies. Forbes Link


They out draw us by 10,000.

SOME of this is on Arizona fans. I could go one by one through your list and dispute a couple of other points, but not all of what you said is wrong either. You make some good points.

But there is still no way to completely absolve Arizona fans for the fact that the Rockies have out drawn the D Backs every year since 2006, and the Rockies were only SLIGHTLY behind the D Backs in 2003-2004-2005. You could look it up. ;)

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trading young number one over all talent for back end of the rotation talent was fundamentally irresponsible. BFDD


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 Post subject: Re: The Chase experience and attendance
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:13 am 
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Strebor wrote:
They've removed their games from broadcast TV.


I know that the Cubs air some of their games on their local ABC affiliate, but other than that isn't every team airing their games on some cable network?

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 Post subject: Re: The Chase experience and attendance
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:05 am 
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The television ratings have been very good for years, so the interest is there. While ticket prices are some of the lowest in MLB, average household incomes in the area are low (but increasing, I think) compared to many other MLB cities. Light rail is a joke for most Valley residents. Relocating to the East Valley, next to a freeway, should boost attendance by 5K+ per game. We can disagree on where in the EV a new stadium should be built. :) JC knew it would take a generation (20 yrs) to build a loyal fan base. The current regime, thru a variety of actions/inactions has probably added another ten years to that. Perhaps JC's biggest mistake was the size and location of the stadium.


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 Post subject: Re: The Chase experience and attendance
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:10 am 
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shoewizard wrote:
We've won more games, more divisions, and made playoffs more often than the Rockies.

Our tickets are cheaper than the Rockies. Forbes Link


They out draw us by 10,000.

SOME of this is on Arizona fans. I could go one by one through your list and dispute a couple of other points, but not all of what you said is wrong either. You make some good points.

But there is still no way to completely absolve Arizona fans for the fact that the Rockies have out drawn the D Backs every year since 2006, and the Rockies were only SLIGHTLY behind the D Backs in 2003-2004-2005.


You could look it up. ;)



One thing to note is that the weather in Colorado in the Summer time, and ability to hang outside in a vibrant downtown, similar to a San Diego, makes for a great event and day out. It's not just going to the game. It's a whole day for a lot of people with downtown events and festivals before and after the game. Contrast that to it being 110 and uninhabitable outside in downtown Phx from June to Sep, that tells the story to me. If we played baseball from October to April, and people could make a day of it and hang outside, we'd have much better attendance. To me, baseball is a game where you sit outside in the sun and drink a cold beer. You can't do the outdoor/sun thing here and I don't even love drinking indoors when it's 114 degrees outside. This definitely takes away from the experience for 4 months of the season locally. I go a lot and would go a lot more if we had a better climate experience. I hit a ton of Padres games to take advantage of this. That's not even accounting for the fact that a lot of AZ residents and season ticket holders (like me) leave to San Diego and other places for half the summer. I think this accounts for at least the attendance differential between us and CO, if not even more.

The point is, I'm not sure there's an easy fix outside of expanding the fanbase over time and consistently fielding very competitive and compelling teams.


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 Post subject: Re: The Chase experience and attendance
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:02 am 
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I think it has more to do with accessibility of the stadium than temperature. If I don't get home from work until 5:45- 6:00PM, it's not easy to pack up the family and rush downtown to a ballgame, find a decent and inexpensive parking place, and then get home by 10:30 PM. A stadium in the EV or SEV, next to the freeway(s), should help, along with 6:30 PM first pitch.


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 Post subject: Re: The Chase experience and attendance
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:03 am 
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The median household income is $15k higher in Denver ($71k/yr) than in PHX ($56k/yr).

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 Post subject: Re: The Chase experience and attendance
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:12 am 
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Also, fans didn't enter this season with high hopes, so the increase in attendance in response to the team's performance wouldn't have been realized until the 2nd-half of season. Kind of like 2007. Half of that season was played in front of 15k-20k in the stands.

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 Post subject: Re: The Chase experience and attendance
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:46 am 
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dbackfanron wrote:
I think it has more to do with accessibility of the stadium than temperature. If I don't get home from work until 5:45- 6:00PM, it's not easy to pack up the family and rush downtown to a ballgame, find a decent and inexpensive parking place, and then get home by 10:30 PM. A stadium in the EV or SEV, next to the freeway(s), should help, along with 6:30 PM first pitch.


I've heard this pitch before but I disagree with it. Look at what happened to the Coyotes when they isolated to one extremity of the Valley. Disastrous. Works for the NFL because it's a Sunday and you only have 10 events per year. Doesn't work with 40-80 games and a lot on work/school nights. I agree that moving to the EV wouldn't be quite as bad as the West Valley as you have a better income demographics to draw from, but you're going to alienate a lot of folks (like me) who live in Central Phoenix, and certainly the West Valley, which by the way will see more population growth over the long term than anywhere else in the state. I would also speculate that Central Phx and PV types are also more likely to have been longer time residents, thus more invested in local teams and more likely to attend lots of games and buy season tix. The SEV tends to pick up a higher percentage of transplants, which would lead to people maybe going to a game here or there, but not consistently, and certainly not enough to make up the gap from moving out of Downtown and losing a most of the West Valley and some of the Central/ North Phx.

Point is that you're never going to make everyone happy with location given the number of games, worknight games, kids etc. But I don't think you're going to draw better anywhere other than Downtown, which is a centralized option for the greatest amount of people AND offers the most pregame/postgame spots within walking distance. Maybe for hockey the EV would work because you have a more niche sport with a lot of transplants that are hockey diehards and that's where most of the Coyotes fanbase lives. You also don't have as many seats to fill. However, baseball isn't gong to consistently draw a bunch of transplants, some of whom leave in the Summer anyway, and others who may only come to see their teams when they come to town.

I continue to believe weather is a huge deal. People want to do things outside. It's not just the game. It's the pregame, the game, and the postgame. You can't do the former and the latter in Phx for about 70% of the season. For example, I'm not a PAdres fan, but I go to about 5-10 games in Sd every summer. Why? Not because I give a crap about the Padres, but because it's fun to be outside and drink a cold beer in the sun and good weather. We take my kids and they love it. Hit up downtown for the festivals or restaurants afterward. It's a full day event. The ability to do more than just the game also alleviates the issue of transportation and parking because you're not just going for 3 hours. We have really good transportation corridors here compared to a lot of places. Try going to Dodger Stadium at rush hour. But again, people do it. Great weather and outdoor baseball makes it worth the commute once you're there.


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 Post subject: Re: The Chase experience and attendance
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:20 am 
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Although it won't happen, I've argued that the Gila River Indian Reservation at the SW corner of I-10 and Loop 202 San Tan/South Mountain Freeway would be the best location for accessibility for the most fans, including Casa Grande, Maricopa, and even Tucson for weekend games. The amenities you speak of around Chase would undoubtedly grow up around a new ballpark in the EV.

One thing that has changed in the last twenty years or so is the school calendar. Kids are in school for much of the baseball season. For that reason, accessibility is paramount. While Chase may not be the hardest ballpark to get to, it's by no means easy with the downtown one-way streets. Parking is expensive, primarily because downtown real estate is more expensive and parking lots are not the best use for the land downtown.


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