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 Post subject: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:21 am 
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These are not the answers.

Backpacks and Gun Rush

Holy wrong reaction batman.

Arizona Group says allowng Guns in school overdue

Right....I can see it now. Some teacher or vice principal loses it over some asshole kid and blows him away because he had access to a gun on school property designed to help protect against a mass murderer.


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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:36 am 
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Guns in schools doesn't feel like the answer. We cant have armed guards at every school in the country, and it seems like there will be more accidental shootings if you have teachers running around with Glocks. If there is one trained person at each school, it might help, but it feels to me making guns MORE a part of our culture isnt the right thing to do. (opinion)

I dont have a problem with guns per se. (i own some myself). But as always, it seems like a few really really really bad apples spoil it for everyone who is a responsible gun owner. We clearly cant trust people like Nancy Lanza who own assault weapons and make them available to her unstable child. Of course, its not always about assault rifles either. Clips will have to be looked at, etc etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:30 pm 
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Sometimes the answer is so obvious, it's painful.


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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:27 am 
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shoewizard wrote:
Sometimes the answer is so obvious, it's painful.


You really think there is some obvious answer? I've been racking my brain for a week trying to figure out why and how we could have stopped it.....I think the only "obvious" answer is increased security and that's not any easy solution.....


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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:46 am 
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Driaz,

Although there are outliers of incidents, they just don't have anything like the number of gun related homicides in any other industrialized country in the world. You tell me why that is ?


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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:00 am 
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Quote:
America's gun control laws are the loosest in the developed world and its rate of gun-related homicide is the highest. Of the world's 23 :oops: "rich" countries, the U.S. gun-related murder rate is almost 20 times that of the other 22. With almost one privately owned firearm per person, America's ownership rate is the highest in the world; tribal-conflict-torn Yemen is ranked second, with a rate about half of America's.

But what about the country at the other end of the spectrum? What is the role of guns in Japan, the developed world's least firearm-filled nation and perhaps its strictest controller? In 2008, the U.S. had over 12 thousand firearm-related homicides. All of Japan experienced only 11, fewer than were killed at the Aurora shooting alone. And that was a big year: 2006 saw an astounding two, and when that number jumped to 22 in 2007, it became a national scandal. By comparison, also in 2008, 587 Americans were killed just by guns that had discharged accidentally.


Link


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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:32 am 
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shoewizard wrote:
Driaz,

Although there are outliers of incidents, they just don't have anything like the number of gun related homicides in any other industrialized country in the world. You tell me why that is ?


I don't know why......you're the one saying there is an easy solution but won't say what it is........Japan is routinely brought up in these kind of debates, but they are one of the most homogenous populations on the planet, while we are one of the most culturally diverse populations on the planet......how many of our horrific gun related homicides are related to interracial gang violence and the propagation of the illegal drug trade?

Hell, our own government can even fuck up trying to infiltrate the drug/gun trafficking business and get a bunch of American's killed....there are a lot of things to consider when discussing this topic......


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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:52 am 
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You don't know why ? Bullshit.


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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:06 am 
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shoewizard wrote:
You don't know why ? Bullshit.


No, I don't know why.....I think I'm understanding the "why" you think I should be understanding, but I have to disagree with you if that's the "why" you think I know that you are talking about.......

Why don't you just say what you think is the problem and the solution you propose? ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:13 am 
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Stop playing stupid.

300 million guns is why there are more gun deaths in the USA than any other Wealthy Industrialized nations.

It's a fact. The correlation is irrefutable. And only an intellectually dishonest person would deny it.

But gun owners want their guns, and will selfishly hold on to them until they are pried from their cold dead hands. Forget the common good.

If you knew that giving up your gun(s) would lead to saving at least one person from being killed by a gun, would it be worth it ? You might think....well not me first. But if not you, then who ?

By the year 2015 more people will die a gun death in the United States then in car accidents.

Yippe Cai Hey !!!


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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:24 am 
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shoewizard wrote:
Stop playing stupid.

300 million guns is why there are more gun deaths in the USA than any other Wealthy Industrialized nations.

It's a fact. The correlation is irrefutable. And only an intellectually dishonest person would deny it.

But gun owners want their guns, and will selfishly hold on to them until they are pried from their cold dead hands. Forget the common good.

If you knew that giving up your gun(s) would lead to saving at least one person from being killed by a gun, would it be worth it ? You might think....well not me first. But if not you, then who ?

By the year 2015 more people will die a gun death in the United States then in car accidents.

Yippe Cai Hey !!!


Link please.....this is just stupid.....

Way more kids will die because of a swimming pool than because of a gun every year and more kids will be killed in car accidents than because of guns.....


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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:14 am 
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Driaz wrote:
shoewizard wrote:
Stop playing stupid.

300 million guns is why there are more gun deaths in the USA than any other Wealthy Industrialized nations.

It's a fact. The correlation is irrefutable. And only an intellectually dishonest person would deny it.

But gun owners want their guns, and will selfishly hold on to them until they are pried from their cold dead hands. Forget the common good.

If you knew that giving up your gun(s) would lead to saving at least one person from being killed by a gun, would it be worth it ? You might think....well not me first. But if not you, then who ?

By the year 2015 more people will die a gun death in the United States then in car accidents.

Yippe Cai Hey !!!


Link please.....this is just stupid.....

Way more kids will die because of a swimming pool than because of a gun every year and more kids will be killed in car accidents than because of guns.....



Before I rebut you with numbers and links,....THAT's your arguement ? That people die in car accidents and swimming pools so it's ok to have so many needless violent gun deaths ? That may just be the worst argument to anything ever. Seriously, that is the stupidest thing I have ever read on this message board. Are you that callous to think that since people die in accidents, it's ok for tens of thousands of people in this country to die needlessly in gun incidents ? Sure.....getting rid of guns doesn't end the murder or suicide rate...but it reduces it because it eliminates an easy and effective means. It's really just that simple.

This isn't only about kids either.

Just Over 32,000 people died an auto death last year

LINK

As of 2007, just over 31,000 people died a gun death. LINK

In 2004 there were 3308 drowing deaths in the United States

LINK

Now...can you please open your mind, and stop defending your right to own a gun for 5 minutes. The odds are if someone breaks into your house you will be half passed out drunk and not able to get to your gun to protect yourself anyway. ESPECIALLY if you have it locked up in a safe place like you are supposed to. Then you REALLY won't have a chance to get to it.

For the small sliver of a chance that you will even be able to effectively use a gun in the remote chance you will need to, there is a ten times higher chance that gun will fall into the wrong hands and mis fire accidentally, or be used in anger in an emotional moment, or used for a suicide.

Put away your fear, and put ON your thinking cap. It's ok to change your mind, even on something you have believed most of your life. In fact it's liberating. Try it.


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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:33 pm 
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shoewizard wrote:
Driaz wrote:
shoewizard wrote:
Stop playing stupid.

300 million guns is why there are more gun deaths in the USA than any other Wealthy Industrialized nations.

It's a fact. The correlation is irrefutable. And only an intellectually dishonest person would deny it.

But gun owners want their guns, and will selfishly hold on to them until they are pried from their cold dead hands. Forget the common good.

If you knew that giving up your gun(s) would lead to saving at least one person from being killed by a gun, would it be worth it ? You might think....well not me first. But if not you, then who ?

By the year 2015 more people will die a gun death in the United States then in car accidents.

Yippe Cai Hey !!!


Link please.....this is just stupid.....

Way more kids will die because of a swimming pool than because of a gun every year and more kids will be killed in car accidents than because of guns.....



Before I rebut you with numbers and links,....THAT's your arguement ? That people die in car accidents and swimming pools so it's ok to have so many needless violent gun deaths ? That may just be the worst argument to anything ever. Seriously, that is the stupidest thing I have ever read on this message board. Are you that callous to think that since people die in accidents, it's ok for tens of thousands of people in this country to die needlessly in gun incidents ? Sure.....getting rid of guns doesn't end the murder or suicide rate...but it reduces it because it eliminates an easy and effective means. It's really just that simple.

This isn't only about kids either.

Just Over 32,000 people died an auto death last year

LINK

As of 2007, just over 31,000 people died a gun death. LINK

In 2004 there were 3308 drowing deaths in the United States

LINK

Now...can you please open your mind, and stop defending your right to own a gun for 5 minutes. The odds are if someone breaks into your house you will be half passed out drunk and not able to get to your gun to protect yourself anyway. ESPECIALLY if you have it locked up in a safe place like you are supposed to. Then you REALLY won't have a chance to get to it.

For the small sliver of a chance that you will even be able to effectively use a gun in the remote chance you will need to, there is a ten times higher chance that gun will fall into the wrong hands and mis fire accidentally, or be used in anger in an emotional moment, or used for a suicide.

Put away your fear, and put ON your thinking cap. It's ok to change your mind, even on something you have believed most of your life. In fact it's liberating. Try it.


Holy strawman, batman!

You're attributing my direct response to some made up stat you posted comparing automobile accidents as that's my reason for my viewpoints???? You brought it up, not me.....:confused:

Let's look at the gun violence stats from your link....

"Gun violence is an intensely debated political issue in the United States. Gun-related violence is most common in poor urban areas and in conjunction with gang violence, often involving juveniles or young adults"

The very second sentence says the most common incidences of gun violence are due to gangs. I made that point earlier as to why it's impossible to compare the USA to other countries, especially Japan because it is the most homogenous country in the world. In your perfect world where no law abiding citizens have firearms, do you seriously believe gangs will not have firearms either? In fact, you would do just the opposite and empower the criminal more because they will be the ONLY people with firearms.

Also from the article,

"The majority of gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides,[6] with 17,352 (55.6%) of the total 31,224 firearm-related deaths in 2007 due to suicide."

So over half of those numbers are suicides. Do you believe that someone that wants to kill themselves and is at the point of doing it will not because they don't have a gun?

On, a positive note from your links......wow, auto safety is seriously working if those numbers are correct! I know they are getting better and better, but didn't know we were down to that few fatalities per year.

I thought about closing with a flippant condescending quip asking you to put down your irrational hatred of all firearms and open up your mind for 5 minutes, but I'll pass.


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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:02 pm 
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Driaz wrote:
Also from the article,

"The majority of gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides,[6] with 17,352 (55.6%) of the total 31,224 firearm-related deaths in 2007 due to suicide."

So over half of those numbers are suicides. Do you believe that someone that wants to kill themselves and is at the point of doing it will not because they don't have a gun?


I have no interest in joining the broader argument here, but will say that suicide existed long before guns and will still be here long after that tool disappears. Suicide is merely a symptom of a crushing load on someone’s shoulders that passes the tipping point of what a person is able to carry. Hope is lost. It’s safe to say that even with the strictest of gun bans, very few of the suicide deaths formerly performed by guns would disappear. If you want to see a drastic reduction in suicide deaths, which have been increasing nationally over the last several years, fix the economy.

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- Rocky Balboa on the 2017 Arizona Diamondbacks, those comeback kids


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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:33 pm 
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Shoe,

Let's look at your numbers closer. You say America has 300 million guns and there are approximately 30,000 deaths due to gun violence. We already know over half of those are suicides and the majority of homicides involve gang violence that will still have weapons if you outlaw all firearms.......

But, to the numbers......let's assume every gun related death is due to a discreet weapon.....ie 30,000 deaths are due to 30,000 guns and no gun was used to inflict more than one death......

You are talking .01% of the firearms in this country are used in gun related deaths.....You want to ban 99.99% of guns in this country because .01% are used to kill someone? If you take out the greater than 50% that are suicides, and you are talking .005%

I'll give you credit, at least you think all guns should be banned, and not just certain "skeery" looking guns.....


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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:28 am 
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Quote:
interracial gang violence and the propagation of the illegal drug trade?
:lol: :o :(

Seriously? NO. Seriously? Wow. :evil:

It must suck to have to cower behind a gun. Especially when that gun won't buy you a wooden nickel. Good luck with the coyotes and other varmints...because it won't get you jack-squat against the people you fear. It's time to let it go. Like other civilized countries who have been here far far longer than us. And realized the stupidity of allowing this bs to happen. You have your right... for now. And not much longer. Raise your flag.... because it will count. It's not Fantasy Country. Most gang violence isn't "interracial", btw. And if you don't like illegal drugs, quit making them so. Problem solved. See: Prohibition. Jesus. Boom, boom. Really?!

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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:06 am 
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BOND wrote:
Quote:
interracial gang violence and the propagation of the illegal drug trade?
:lol: :o :(

Seriously? NO. Seriously? Wow. :evil:

It must suck to have to cower behind a gun. Especially when that gun won't buy you a wooden nickel. Good luck with the coyotes and other varmints...because it won't get you jack-squat against the people you fear. It's time to let it go. Like other civilized countries who have been here far far longer than us. And realized the stupidity of allowing this bs to happen. You have your right... for now. And not much longer. Raise your flag.... because it will count. It's not Fantasy Country. Most gang violence isn't "interracial", btw. And if you don't like illegal drugs, quit making them so. Problem solved. See: Prohibition. Jesus. Boom, boom. Really?!


Wow Bond, lay off the brownies dude......the irony is so rich with this one......banning guns is good, will end all evil.....banning drugs is bad, people will still get drugs around prohibition......


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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:16 am 
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Ok Shoe and Bond......

Don't mind me, I'm just a dumbass......

Tell me this....you take the guns away from Qudjy and TAP......that makes America safer in your opinion?


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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:23 am 
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Yes, Driaz, because if TAP and Qudjy will help lead the way, it will pave the way to get the guns out of the hands of the people that really can't handle having them.

It's a small sacrifice for them to make, and if they can each convince 3 friends, and so on....next thing you know you have rational people paving the way for the common good.


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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:34 am 
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shoewizard wrote:
Yes, Driaz, because if TAP and Qudjy will help lead the way, it will pave the way to get the guns out of the hands of the people that really can't handle having them.

It's a small sacrifice for them to make, and if they can each convince 3 friends, and so on....next thing you know you have rational people paving the way for the common good.


How so???? you just had Bond flaunting how easily obtainable illegal drugs are to those that want them (prohibition)......you think Q and TAP giving up their guns is going to spread some Euphoria for the criminals to not obtain guns in the pursuit of their craft?

How nice of you to classify stripping them of their right to protect themselves and their families as a "small sacrifice" for the greater good........


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