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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:00 pm 
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So I heard that Joe's group of misfit rentacops are going to be patrolling schools in Maricopa County.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/0 ... 25100.html


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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:19 pm 
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I'm conflicted on the gun issue.

I grew up in a hunting family, spent many an afternoon target shooting with my grandpa after school as a child, and was taught from the very beginning the proper respect for firearms. We have an assortment of rifles and shotguns, but only one handgun, a .22 revolver that was carried on hunting trips primarily out of concern for the animals we were hunting in the instance it wasn't a clean kill. None of us ever wanted to have to use it, but there were instances it was the much more humane action to take.

Going hunting, I saw firsthand the damage firearms inflict on flesh. Deer/elk/antelope/javelinas with 6" exit wounds, steam rising from blown-out necks in the freezing cold, blood all over, listening to the final gurgly breaths, the real stuff. That most definitely made an impression on me. I never got a rush of excitement from killing, the thing I sought was acceptance and praise from my father and grandfather. And what little boy doesn't want that?

However, as a grown-up, I have made the conscious decision to not personally hunt anymore. I still go on the hunting trips, help with dressing and carrying the animal out after the kill, all that stuff, but I don't shoot. For me, it's about the ritual of getting up early, hiking, and the bonding moments shared by multiple generations of family members. And the last thing I ever want to give up are my grandfather/father's rifles that are as much an heirloom as anything, that I look forward to passing on when I have a son or daughter.

I view the arguments from hunters to be much more valid than those from non-hunters. Non-hunters traditionally fall back on A) To protect yourself from the government; B) To protect yourself from criminals; C) They enjoy shooting guns.

Unfortunately, "protecting" yourself against the government almost always results in death or serious gun-injury for the individual supposedly protecting themselves; if you REALLY want to protect yourself, hire a good lawyer. Given the realities of attempting to protect oneself against the government, my view is that argument is complete bullshit because it just isn't possible.

For those that simply want to protect themselves from home invasions, a dog is far more effective. The reality is that guns in the house introduce an element of danger that previously did not exist. While the sense of security in having a gun in the house may be comforting, findings from studies show conclusively that there is a much greater likelihood of an accidental shooting than the firearm ever actually being used for the scenario in which it was intended. "Results show that regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of firearms in the home, having a gun in the home was associated with an increased risk of firearm homicide and firearm suicide in the home." In the instances of attempted suicides, give me someone slitting their wrists or trying to OD on pills vs putting a gun in their mouth any day of the week. And beyond possessing a firearm in the house, when carrying a concealed weapon in public, those carrying weapons are emboldened to pursue actions they otherwise wouldn't. Everybody gets real brave while carrying a firearm, when the wiser course is to avoid the situation altogether.

I do agree that shooting guns is fun. I've always been in favor of firing ranges with secure lockers for members' firearms.


Aside from those generalities, to me, the real problem is simply young American males with firearms in urban areas. Very rarely is the shooter female or older than 25. Young males are in the risk-taking primes of their lives, and are rarely mature or developed enough to exhibit the responsibility ALL THE TIME that possessing a firearm requires.

I also dismiss the notion that we are powerless to curtail this epidemic when every other country facing this very same health problem has successfully reduced the number of fatalities with reasonable/measured restrictions or outright bans. But that is only one solution, I also believe that there are several means by which to achieve the end of fewer gun deaths.

- Social/financial pressure on firearms dealers/suppliers is effective. It would be wonderful if the interests pushing for gun control ran ads telling everybody where the firearm and ammunition was purchased when one of these mass killings occurs. You think WalMart wants that press??? Or any business, for that matter? Business responds to financial impacts, and when gun control advocates begin boycotting their stores in response to them selling the items used to kill people, they will notice.

- Education. I'm not talking about facts/numbers. I'm talking about pictures. Show kids exactly what guns do. It's the kids that don't have exposure to the ramifications of pulling the trigger that are most likely to do so. After seeing the damage done, I was horrified of ever having to use a gun against another human being, even if only to protect myself; so I don't, and I use my brain to avoid situations where it may be necessary. You carry a gun, you pull a gun, and the next thing you know you've backed yourself into a corner and you're trading Justin Upton...

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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:34 am 
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4yr old Sheriff's son
I can't think of anybody more aware of gun safety than a Sheriff Deputy. I don't think a 4 year old would understand a gun safety video. Just another tragedy to add to our stats.

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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:59 am 
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Baby shot by 2 teens
Maybe we should arm all mothers out walking with their babies.

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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:32 pm 
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another accident involving a 4 year old

This time the kid kills a deputy's wife.

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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:43 pm 
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Gun deaths since Newtown




1013

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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:03 am 
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And nothing is going to happen. It's unbelievable that the politicians are probably going to block the universal background checks.


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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:58 pm 
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most of the GOP and a couple D's think our existing gun laws are totally good enough.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/1 ... 03341.html


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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:01 pm 
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When it comes to taking our guns away, it won't be the democrats, the republicans, or even the "government." It will be the women. They're the ones left to pick up the pieces after their sons/brothers/husbands/fathers shoot each other up, and that's why they favor gun control 65/35. At some point, these votes are going to add up and the women will unite to say in their sternest mommy voice, "That's it! We have had enough!!! Obviously you little boys can't handle the responsibility, so we're taking your toys AWAY!!!"

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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 3:10 pm 
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shoewizard wrote:
Gun deaths since Newtown




1013


Kids killed by guns since Newton

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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:07 am 
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I am going to TLDR the first two pages of this so this may have been touched upon...

Seriously? Yeah, Newton was definetly a tradegy, but if I was 10 and someone gave me a flack vest and armoured backpack to go to school... well I have enough paranoid anxeity as it is, Id probably be ducking at any random sound.

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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:58 am 
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Center for Disease Control (CDC): estimates 32,873 gun deaths in 2013. Come on America only 2 more weeks left for 2013 lets get to 33,000, I know we can do it.

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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:19 pm 
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Back when my folks were growing up they could walk into a hardware/gun store and walk out with a fully outfitted Thompson submachine gun no questions asked, phone calls made, or papers signed. Then there was crime as there is now, of course people weren't mowing down hallways full of children or shopping centers/movie theaters quite on the scale were seeing today which is strange considering the average Joe (money permitting) had access to belt fed machineguns, BAR's, Tommyguns, and a lot more toys on a lot higher scale than we do today.

I think the issue were facing goes way past gun control. Sure we can enact sweeping gun legislation and ~ban 'em all~ (see drugs, it obviously works well) that would be the easy thing to do right?
Or we could sit down and realize society is slowly going to shit and we could do with addressing mental health and how were handling it in this country...? Na fuck that, too hard.

Ban guns.


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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:53 pm 
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two wrongs don't quite make a right.

It's true, the roots of violent crime are poverty, lack of education, economic inequity , and yes mental health issues, perhaps in part caused by some of the above.

Just because we are not effective in addressing these issues as a society does not mean we have to give up on all common sense initiatives. And if mental health really IS the primary issues, why do you want to let all the crazies have guns ? :P :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:10 pm 
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74th campus shooting since Newtown link

Oh well......i guess everyone is used to it by now, right ?


Quote:
The shooting was the 74th on a U.S. campus since the December 2012 massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., according to the American Federation of Teachers, the union representing staff at Reynolds High.

"This is the 74th time the safety of a school community has been shattered by a gunman. This is the 74th time students, educators and school staff have felt the terror of not knowing if they will ever see their loved ones again. This is the 74th time that parents have experienced the fear of not knowing what is happening to their children," AFT President Randi Weingarten said in a statement.

"It is long past time for action. We renew our call for leaders to act in the interest of our children and families to ensure that our schools are safe sanctuaries. We must pass sensible reforms that can help prevent our children, and those who teach and nurture them, from being gunned down. And we will work with our affiliate and the entire Reynolds High School community to help them heal and to restore a sense of safety and security."

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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:05 am 
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I was in Seattle last week when the shooting occurred at Seattle Pacific University. We were staying about 5 miles south of the campus on Pike Street, and on that day about 3:30 an army of police cars and emergency vehicles went flying by us, and we knew something bad had happened. My older son who was with me actually has a friend that he graduated from high school with here in Tucson that attends the University. He was on campus when the shooting occurred in one building over taking a final.
My son had an interesting comment about how the shootings. He thinks that a lot of what is to blame for the horriffic increase in campus shootings is the entitlement attitude of his generation. His comment was that this generation doesn't know how to handle adversity in life. If everything doesn't go exactly their way, or they don't get exactly what they want when they want it, they flip out and grab a gun and decide to take themselves out and others along with them.
I think there is some merit to his opinions, however I'm sure it's a combination of mental health issues and societal issues as well.
Something to think about anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:50 am 
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tucsondbacksfan wrote:
My son had an interesting comment about how the shootings. He thinks that a lot of what is to blame for the horriffic increase in campus shootings is the entitlement attitude of his generation. His comment was that this generation doesn't know how to handle adversity in life.


I work with a kid who expresses this sentiment to me all the time. Not in any discussion about campus shootings, but just in general. He's told me over and over again how he hates his generation.

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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:08 pm 
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It may be that we get the news much, much faster than we ever did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster


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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:54 pm 
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What are you saying ? That these types of incidents were just as frequent years ago, just not reported ?

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 Post subject: Re: Armored Back Packs ? MORE Guns in Schools ?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:16 am 
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Well, we are back to square 1, and unfortunately have been round and round the block with ever increasing frequency

Florida School offers Bulletproof backpack inserts

Ok, can we at least agree on one thing:

The Manufacture, Sales, and Possession of an Assault Rifle, (and lets go with a broad definition of assault rifle and not fuck with semantics) should be completely outlawed in this country.

There should be a mandatory buyback program. If you don't sell it back to the government, and get caught, you go to jail.

Yes, many will still refuse to give them up, but by taking the above measures, there will be a hell of a lot fewer in circulation.

I really am not interested in hearing ANY justification for any type of assault rifles, semi automatic or otherwise. Anyone is free to comment , as always, but my mind is not going to be changed. There is just no justification to possess such a weapon.

Outlaw the damn things completely, take them back, and enforce and administer properly all the other gun laws on the books .


The second thing I do is outlaw the unreported secondary sale or ownership transfer of a weapon. You can't sell it, pass it on, or pass it down, to any other person without reporting the sale or transfer. (In many states that is still legal)

There is no justification to hide the ownership transfer of a gun. For law abiding citizens this is not an issue.

Again, obviously that is not going to eliminate all illegal sales and transfers, but it will reduce the odds that a gun falls in the wrong hands

In the end, thats all we can do, improve the odds.

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