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 Post subject: Re: UofA/ASU pooping thread
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:13 am 
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dbackfanron wrote:
The playoff system is becoming a joke. There are still many deserving teams on the outside looking in. I prefer the old system with the Bowl alignments.


I'd like a bigger playoff maybe something like power 5 conf champs 2 wildcard and 1 from a smaller conf. The old way we wouldn't get to see who is better on the field Oklahoma v UGA because the big 12 champ would go to the Orange and SEC Champ would go Sugar.

shoewizard wrote:
Without looking it up, who was the National Champion in 2008 ?


I think that was the rematch year Bama beat LSU

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 Post subject: Re: UofA/ASU pooping thread
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:40 am 
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Following 2008 season, BCS bowl champ was Florida, who beat Oklahoma.

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 Post subject: Re: UofA/ASU pooping thread
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:08 am 
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so the year Utah was the only undefeated team

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 Post subject: Re: UofA/ASU pooping thread
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:51 am 
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Tebowing was cool in 2008. I say this every year, but expanding the playoff to 8 teams will fix a lot of this. Sure, the next team left out will always be able to complain, whether they're the 5th/9th/13th or whatever. But in college football the 9th team will rarely, if ever, have a chance to win 3 games against better opponents. The 5th team may be able to. The power-5 conference champs should get in (unless they have 4 or more losses and their ranking is below __th) and then the next 3 best teams.

It's a better option than what they've ever used before. Sure, it could still be gamed to an extent (especially when the process is lorded over by ESPN, which owns the SEC network), but it more fairly covers the bases.

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 Post subject: Re: UofA/ASU pooping thread
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:53 am 
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What does the Shadow think of the new Herman Edwards era? BTW, I can't call him Herm. Sounds like you're clearing your throat. The dude was Herman when he was playing.

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 Post subject: Re: UofA/ASU pooping thread
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:57 am 
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7-0 ASU basketball moves up four spots to No. 16 in AP Poll

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 Post subject: Re: UofA/ASU pooping thread
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:11 am 
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Oden wrote:
Tebowing was cool in 2008. I say this every year, but expanding the playoff to 8 teams will fix a lot of this. Sure, the next team left out will always be able to complain, whether they're the 5th/9th/13th or whatever. But in college football the 9th team will rarely, if ever, have a chance to win 3 games against better opponents. The 5th team may be able to. The power-5 conference champs should get in (unless they have 4 or more losses and their ranking is below __th) and then the next 3 best teams.

It's a better option than what they've ever used before. Sure, it could still be gamed to an extent (especially when the process is lorded over by ESPN, which owns the SEC network), but it more fairly covers the bases.



What would the schedule look like ?

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 Post subject: Re: UofA/ASU pooping thread
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:49 am 
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The Scheduling would be simple. Quarterfinals on New Years Day. Semifinals the 2nd Saturday after that and Final the week between the NFL Conference championship round and Super Bowl.

The schedule would be unchanged for every NCAA team but the last 4, who would be happy to have the chance to play in the College Football Final Four.

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 Post subject: Re: UofA/ASU pooping thread
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:57 am 
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There must be an undeniable pathway to the playoff that can be secured with a win on the field, regardless of what prognosticators believe. This is best accomplished in an 8-team format with automatic bids to each conference champion and the highest ranked G5 team according to the final regular season power rankings. The 2 remaining at-large bids should go the highest ranked teams in the final regular season power rankings not to win an automatic bid, and conferences are limited to one automatic bid and one at-large bid.

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 Post subject: Re: UofA/ASU pooping thread
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:01 pm 
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The problem with the "the best teams should go" argument is that who's to say those are the top-4/top-8 teams? We've seen the #'s 2-4 teams come up money in the BCS too often to take the committee's ranking as gospel. Those are guesses. Educated guesses, but guesses nonetheless. Gotta get the politics and human gatekeeper element out. This is sports, you should be able to win your way to and through the playoffs despite what any committee says. Gotta have automatic qualifying bids for each Power-5 conference winner and the best G5 team if it is to be a credible system for determining a true champion.

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 Post subject: Re: UofA/ASU pooping thread
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:43 pm 
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I know they will never go back to the old system. That being said, I agree with you Gary about the automatic qualifying. Maybe they should add the top 10 finishers in the standing must play one of the other top 15-20 teams, not in their conference, the next season.


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 Post subject: Re: UofA/ASU pooping thread
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:00 am 
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The scheduling issue has had some really bad proposals. I remember Todd Graham saying something like Power5 teams should only play other P5 teams in nonconference. Which sounds ok until you begin to examine what that would do. UofA/ASU could never play NAU again. No G5 team could ever play a P5 team. That's insane. If anything, 1 game vs a non-Power5 team should be mandatory. A much bigger issue is the discrepancy in conference game schedule and some teams playing 8 and others playing 9. And now we've got teams playing 13-game seasons, some playing more consecutive weeks than professionals in the NFL are asked to. That's crazy.

The whole question boils down to which is more important: the traditional bowl tie-ins or having a "perfect" bracket based on imperfect seedings.

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 Post subject: Re: UofA/ASU pooping thread
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:22 am 
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Fwiw, here were the results from the DirtyGary College Football Playoff Selection process this season. Each conference champion and the best G5 team earn Automatic bids. We use the final regular season power rankings for seeding and determining the At-Large bids. (Why not after conference games, you ask? Well, here's one example of what happens all the time. Auburn completed their regular season ranked higher than Alabama, but Alabama was ranked higher in final rankings because Auburn lost a post-season game that Bama didn't even get to and wishes they had. That's a bad prescription for determining playoff spots)

Top-10 (&G5) teams at end of regular season, before conference championship games:
1) Clemson
2) Auburn
3) Oklahoma
4) Wisconsin
5) Alabama
6) Georgia
7) Miami
8) OhioSt
9) PennSt
10) USC
14) UCF

Conference Champions: Clemson, Oklahoma, Georgia, OhioSt, USC, UCF (G5)

Remaining candidates for At-Large bid:
2) Auburn
4) Wisconsin
5) Alabama
7) Miami
9) PennSt

Auburn gets the first At-Large, Wisconsin being the highest ranked team not from the same conference as the first At-Large earns the 2nd At-Large.

The traditional bowl tie-ins are observed, with the matchups being the closest to the 1/8,2/7 format.

That gives the following New Years Day matchups:

Orange Bowl: 1)Clemson vs 8)UCF
Rose Bowl: 6)OhioSt v 7)USC
Sugar Bowl: 5)Georgia v 2)Auburn (I could see wanting to flip Auburn/Oklahoma so the conference champion avoids an opponent from same conference.)
Fiesta Bowl: 3)Oklahoma v 4)Wisconsin

What a great way to start the year!!! 4 awesome games with the teams fighting to continue their season and advance to the CFBF4.

The Orange/Rose winners and the Sugar/Fiesta winners face each other, with those winners advancing to Title game.

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 Post subject: Re: UofA/ASU pooping thread
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:58 pm 
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Why should UCF get an automatic bid? Their conference competition is nowhere close to the power five. Teams you don't even have in (Alabama, Miami) would crush them.

Anyway, the existing media contract runs through 2025, so no changes in the format could happen until after then.


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 Post subject: Re: UofA/ASU pooping thread
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:28 am 
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David B wrote:
Why should UCF get an automatic bid? Their conference competition is nowhere close to the power five. Teams you don't even have in (Alabama, Miami) would crush them.

I thought I just explained why UCF gets in. A little thing called credibility.

UCF is the highest rated G-5 team in the power rankings. But it would be better if the G5 conferences made a little tournament to decide their CFBF4 automatic bid qualifier.

There have been several years in which many believed that a non-participant in the playoffs "would crush" a team that received an invite. But judging participants based on future hypotheticals rather than past evidence is wrong.

The NFL playoffs work pretty well. How many committees do they need to determine participants? Systems work better than committees. NCAA football is no different.

Here's the bracket I make each year based on the dirtygary system.
Image

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 Post subject: Re: UofA/ASU pooping thread
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:39 am 
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UCF has no credibility. They beat nobody of consequence. Their strength of schedule is 83rd, lowest of any team in the Top 25. Including them and leaving out Alabama makes your system look like a joke.

In the NFL they at least play some common opponents. And nobody in the NFL plays a schedule of Canadian Football League teams.


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 Post subject: Re: UofA/ASU pooping thread
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:10 pm 
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Providing no pathway for over half the teams is a joke. The idea that the champion can only come from the Power5 conferences is a joke. The committee playing gatekeeper is a joke. Blocking undefeated teams is a joke.

There will also be Power5 champions that are viewed to be weak and shouldn't be in the tournament. Settle it on the field. Devise a system that is equitable and based on results on the field rather than opinions and committee group-think. The top G5 teams can beat the big boys when they get the chance.

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 Post subject: Re: UofA/ASU pooping thread
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:16 pm 
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One benefit of extending automatic bids to conference champions is that there will reduced consequences to losing those high profile non-conference games early in the year. It's ok to sign up for a tough game because it doesn't end your playoff chances if you lose.

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 Post subject: Re: UofA/ASU pooping thread
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:25 pm 
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Why stop there then. James Madison is 11-0. Let's invite them too. And hey, I'm sure there's an undefeated high school team out there somewhere we can include.

Not all undefeated records are created equally. When UCF schedules and proves itself against some power 5 non-conference foes, then they'll deserve to be taken seriously.


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 Post subject: Re: UofA/ASU pooping thread
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:27 pm 
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David B wrote:
Why stop there then. James Madison is 11-0. Let's invite them too. And hey, I'm sure there's an undefeated high school team out there somewhere we can include.

Not all undefeated records are created equally. When UCF schedules and proves itself against some power 5 non-conference foes, then they'll deserve to be taken seriously.

Do the current systems/instruments declare James Madison to be the the best G5 team? Cuz that's where we stop.

This isn't a system that expands its tentacles as far as the outrageously hyperbolic attempts to discredit it suggest. Each Power5 conference has a clearly defined instrument to determine their conference champion (why not use a committee for those, too? :? ), and ideally the preferred method of determining the G5 conferences' Automatic Qualifier to the CFBF4 would be implemented. However, the Power Ratings are the best we have for that group at the moment. But maybe a 4-team tourney to decide the best team from 5 conference? :lol:

What's so bad about a championship pathway for 10 conferences instead of just 5? Power5 teams would receive less than 87.5% of playoff bids only if NotreDame/BYU are participants, but never fewer than 63%

Scheduling. That takes two. What if UCF, like BoiseSt before them, has made beyond reasonable efforts to play stronger teams but they refuse? There were quite a few coaches/pundits that recently advocated for Power5 members ONLY playing other P5 conference teams. If the mentality of closing that door is so prevalent, how exactly are G5 teams supposed to ever overcome that? I think Power5 teams should be *REQUIRED* to play one non-Power5 team each year. Weak/strong, their choice.

Further, if no instrument providing a reasonable pathway to the playoff exists, that leaves G5 teams in a position where joining a Power5 team is the only option in pursuing championship aspirations. And Power5 conferences look at the financial gain which is entirely based on households and media rights fees. So the networks are choosing who gets to play for championships. What a great "system". I'm not sure if that's better or worse than every conference expanding to 16-teams, which is gonna happen eventually. Expansionocalypse, here we come.

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