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 Post subject: Re: 2018 Hall of Fame Ballot
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:02 am 
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Looks like Edgar will fall short. The non public vote tends to be more traditional and less likely to vote for a DH or value OBP.

Also if you dive into the Table you can see that with 56% counted, Edgar missed election last year by 73 votes, and has a net gain from returning voters of only 24 votes. He would need that net gain to be roughly 40 to be on track for election. It's unlikely he picks up the missing votes from the non public ballots.

Prediction: Edgar falls about 45 votes short this year. Close but no cigar

Hoffman did well in the non public votes last year, and only missed election by 5 votes. Among public votes from returning voters he already has a net gain of 11, so it's very likely he goes in.

Chipper, Vlad and Thome are locks. So class of 4 from BWAA this year is going to be the result, with Edgar the highest voter getter not getting in.

Adding Morris and Trammell, there will be 6 players on stage this year.


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 Post subject: Re: 2018 Hall of Fame Ballot
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:27 pm 
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Chipper, Thome, Vlad and Hoffman in. Edgar falls 20 votes short.


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 Post subject: Re: 2018 Hall of Fame Ballot
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:57 pm 
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He got closer than I thought he would.

He'll get in next year I bet


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 Post subject: Re: 2018 Hall of Fame Ballot
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:33 pm 
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I got a feeling mussina gets in next year. Im not a fan of that idea.

Think rivera gets 100%?


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 Post subject: Re: 2018 Hall of Fame Ballot
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:50 pm 
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NJ-DBACKS-FAN wrote:
I got a feeling mussina gets in next year. Im not a fan of that idea.

Think rivera gets 100%?



Are any of the writers still doing that submit a blank ballot shit?

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 Post subject: Re: 2018 Hall of Fame Ballot
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:13 am 
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NJ-DBACKS-FAN wrote:
I got a feeling mussina gets in next year. Im not a fan of that idea.

Think rivera gets 100%?


Mussina deserves to be in HOF. It's not really something that should be in even a little doubt. And he DEFINITELY should have got in before Hoffman. He just shouldn't get in without Schilling right beside him.


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 Post subject: Re: 2018 Hall of Fame Ballot
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:07 pm 
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shoewizard wrote:
NJ-DBACKS-FAN wrote:
I got a feeling mussina gets in next year. Im not a fan of that idea.

Think rivera gets 100%?


Mussina deserves to be in HOF. It's not really something that should be in even a little doubt. And he DEFINITELY should have got in before Hoffman. He just shouldn't get in without Schilling right beside him.




I agree that if mussina gets in schilling needs to go in also

I respect your opinion greatly, obviously...

Can you expand your thoughts on mussina.

My thoughs against him are only

1) one 20 win season on good/great teams
2) i know people say “he pitched in AL East” but i say to that.

When he was in Baltimore, they and the MFY were the two best teams. When he was a MFY, they and Boston were the best.

So, yes. He pitched his entire career in the AL East, but for the most part that division was a two team race and he only had to face one good team because he was pitching for the other. (See point #1)


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 Post subject: Re: 2018 Hall of Fame Ballot
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:05 pm 
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Toronto won the division 91-93 (five teams finished ahead of the O's in 91 and two teams finished ahead of them in 92 and 93) , the Red Sox and Yankees finished ahead of the O's in 95, Yanks, Jays and Red Sox finished ahead of the O's in 98 through 2000.

You underestimate the strength of the division, particularly in the 90s. You also underestimate Mussina, 24th in career WAR for pitchers, ahead of Bob Gibson, Tom Glavine, Don Sutton, Jim Palmer, Don Drysdale and Juan Marichal among others. BTW, Schilling is 26th.


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 Post subject: Re: 2018 Hall of Fame Ballot
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:52 pm 
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NJ-DBACKS-FAN wrote:
shoewizard wrote:
NJ-DBACKS-FAN wrote:
I got a feeling mussina gets in next year. Im not a fan of that idea.

Think rivera gets 100%?


Mussina deserves to be in HOF. It's not really something that should be in even a little doubt. And he DEFINITELY should have got in before Hoffman. He just shouldn't get in without Schilling right beside him.




I agree that if mussina gets in schilling needs to go in also

I respect your opinion greatly, obviously...

Can you expand your thoughts on mussina.

My thoughs against him are only

1) one 20 win season on good/great teams
2) i know people say “he pitched in AL East” but i say to that.

When he was in Baltimore, they and the MFY were the two best teams. When he was a MFY, they and Boston were the best.

So, yes. He pitched his entire career in the AL East, but for the most part that division was a two team race and he only had to face one good team because he was pitching for the other. (See point #1)


Take a look at This Table

It is a table of Wins above Average. The table includes every player in the HOF and every player on the ballot. So this is what Mussina is comparing against.

He ranks 13th, (Schilling ranks 10th) And 4 of the guys above them pitched before World War 2.

And if it's traditional wins that you are hung up on, he ranks 22nd on that list of 81 HOF'ers and guys on ballots, and he ranks 4th on the list of all time in players NOT in the HOF in Wins, behind only Clemens, Jim Kaat, and Tommy John. see here And Those last 2 got to their win totals by just hanging around forever, starting many more games than Mussina. (Look at the difference between Mussina and those guys in the WAA column)

What this means is that Mussina also had the peak to stand up to guys already in the HOF.

It's just not really close. He's a hall of famer.


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 Post subject: Re: 2018 Hall of Fame Ballot
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:15 pm 
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^^^^^

Thanks for the info

Im sold on both of them


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