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 Post subject: We need electronic balls and strikes
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:31 am 
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We're used to seeing balls called strikes, and strikes called balls, but I figured this wouldn't carry over into the post-season. I have never been more wrong.
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Mike Winters was callin em last night, and Dan Schulman was the ESPNcaster calling the game. The zone diagram was on the screen all night long, and Schulman noted on several occasions that pitches out of the zone were being called strikes.
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It was also noted that even if a pitch was in the zone, it was not called a strike IF the catcher had to move his glove, in ANY direction, because the pitcher missed the target. If either pitcher hit the glove, they usually got the call. I have to wonder if this is the umpires' reaction to "framing". They apparently figure that if a catcher moves his glove after receiving the pitch, it was probably out of the zone and the catcher is trying to make it look like a strike.
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But this messes up the game completely. Hitters were walking away throwing their hands up in frustration as to what was a strike, and what wasn't, and Bumgarner and
Winters got into a heated exchange mid-game about pitches that MB justifiably
complained were not called correctly. Hitters and Pitchers MUST have a consistent zone, and if the umpires are DELIBERATELY going to call pitches wrong just because the
catchers glove moves, then it's a floating strike zone and no one will be sure from one pitch to the next.
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MLB may tell us they evaluate the umpires on calls they get right or wrong, but should
we believe them? Is it making any difference if, like last night, the zone is continually
inconsistent? They apparently are still going to call them any way they want to, which
makes them Gods of the Green Cathedral, and all about them.

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 Post subject: Re: When A Strike is Not A Strike
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:41 am 
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The latest HBO Real Sports had a segment on this recently (With Eric Byrnes of all people)
http://www.hbo.com/real-sports-with-bry ... 34-episode


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 Post subject: Re: When A Strike is Not A Strike
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:59 am 
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Robot umps. An inevitable part of the future of baseball.


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 Post subject: Re: When A Strike is Not A Strike
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:31 pm 
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We have the technology. It's time to clean it up.

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 Post subject: Re: When A Strike is Not A Strike
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 1:30 pm 
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TAP wrote:
We have the technology. It's time to clean it up.

Do you think, if we go to the 2016 Winter Meetings, we would be allowed to make
a presentation in favor of robo-umps to the big shots?

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 Post subject: Re: When A Strike is Not A Strike
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 1:44 pm 
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TheDesertSurfer wrote:
TAP wrote:
We have the technology. It's time to clean it up.

Do you think, if we go to the 2016 Winter Meetings, we would be allowed to make
a presentation in favor of robo-umps to the big shots?

I'm there. Sign us up. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: When A Strike is Not A Strike
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 2:44 pm 
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Rob Manfred addressed the Robot Umps issue and the strike zone box in an interview a couple days ago. He said something very interesting.

He said when they go pitch by pitch to evaluate the umps, they have someone that manually adjusts the strike zone box for each hitter. If you think about it , it makes sense. The textbook definition of the strike cannot possibly result in the same strike zone box for each batter. (Rickie Henderson and Tony Clark did not have the same strike zone, obviously) It would seem to me that the differences would be more top and bottom, as the width of the plate is the same regardless of the height or batting stance of the hitter.

Manfred said they don't yet have the technology to make that adjustment in real time, although they are working on it and it may come some day. But when we say "we have the technology", according to Manfred, we don't yet.

So what we see on TV sometimes might not actually be the "real" strike zone the umpire is being graded on.

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 Post subject: Re: When A Strike is Not A Strike
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:25 pm 
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IN view of our continuing discussion about electronic balls and strikes, I am bumping this thread up so we don't have to start a new one on this issue
and hopefully one of the admins will change the title to something like "We need electronic balls and strikes"


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 Post subject: Re: When A Strike is Not A Strike
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:29 pm 
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shoewizard wrote:
Manfred said they don't yet have the technology to make that adjustment in real time, although they are working on it and it may come some day. But when we say "we have the technology", according to Manfred, we don't yet.

So what we see on TV sometimes might not actually be the "real" strike zone the umpire is being graded on.


This may be true for pitches at the top and bottom of the strike zone, but the egregious pitches that are missed inside and outside are inexcusable.


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 Post subject: Re: When A Strike is Not A Strike
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:15 pm 
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bobster wrote:
This may be true for pitches at the top and bottom of the strike zone, but the egregious pitches that are missed inside and outside are inexcusable.


Unfortunately, any electronic system for calling balls and strikes will have to cover the upper and lower portions of the strike zone, as well as the sides, which are defined by home plate. Otherwise, you'd still have to have an umpire there; and he's going to be calling high or low, while the robot calls in or out, well...

But, hey, we put a man on the moon lo, these many years ago. It might be expensive initially; but it shouldn't be insolvable.

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 Post subject: Re: When A Strike is Not A Strike
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:09 pm 
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EvilJuan wrote:
bobster wrote:
This may be true for pitches at the top and bottom of the strike zone, but the egregious pitches that are missed inside and outside are inexcusable.


Unfortunately, any electronic system for calling balls and strikes will have to cover the upper and lower portions of the strike zone, as well as the sides, which are defined by home plate. Otherwise, you'd still have to have an umpire there; and he's going to be calling high or low, while the robot calls in or out, well...

But, hey, we put a man on the moon lo, these many years ago. It might be expensive initially; but it shouldn't be insolvable.

Marking (optically or electronically) the hitters knee and chest should do the trick, otherwise I don't see how they'd ever do it.

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 Post subject: Re: When A Strike is Not A Strike
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:54 pm 
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ReTired wrote:
Marking (optically or electronically) the hitters knee and chest should do the trick, otherwise I don't see how they'd ever do it.


Surely the guys in the MLB booths can do that; either in NYC, or, even better, in each ballpark.

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 Post subject: Re: We need electronic balls and strikes
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:46 am 
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Country Joe suspended for 3 games. Class isn't a pre-requisite for umpires either, but glad to see some accountability here.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ear ... 4e18fa7928

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 Post subject: Re: We need electronic balls and strikes
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:29 am 
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Oden wrote:
Country Joe suspended for 3 games. Class isn't a pre-requisite for umpires either, but glad to see some accountability here.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ear ... 4e18fa7928


"I was just kidding." The last refuge of someone who tries to pass off as humor a "joke" that has blown up in his face. :roll:

But here's an unexpected benefit:

Quote:
The union said that West, who was set to umpire a Dodgers-Diamondbacks series in Phoenix, began serving his suspension Tuesday.

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 Post subject: Re: We need electronic balls and strikes
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:15 pm 
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He probably was just joking, however when historically you are kinda an ass (and a lousy umpire) then people won’t take it that way.


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 Post subject: Re: We need electronic balls and strikes
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:25 pm 
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Rise of the machines? Automated strike zones a concept worth considering

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"It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. How much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!"
- Rocky Balboa on the 2017 Arizona Diamondbacks, those comeback kids


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 Post subject: Re: We need electronic balls and strikes
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:30 pm 
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TAP wrote:


Joe, Joe, Joe... Say it ain't so.

Cubs Manager Joe Maddon wrote:
"Are the veteran umpires really good at understanding nuance of the game and what actually is a good pitch and what needs to be called a strike based on how the game is supposed to be played and run?

"Or does it have to be more exact — this is the strike zone against this guy (based on) how tall he is or however he stands, whatever that means? Is that going to be important?"


Nuances of the game? What "needs" to be called a strike based on how the game is supposed to be played and run? Seriously? :evil:

Is there a better argument for calling balls and strikes electronically? A "nuanced" strike zone is an OFFENSE to the game. The strike zone is the strike zone - and to "nuance" it is to take away the integrity of the game, and require both pitchers and batters to try to guess what the umpire "running" (more like ruining) the game has in mind that day.

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